BW-Tron Beta Tests

[sfd]

Well since the MIDI information is sotred in either presets or bganks it could be a good thing to have at least one. So that one can store the MIDI Leanr settings.

Shouldn't the VST-preset management (store, recall) be done by the host?

Not sure about "should" but yes It can b edone by the host.

However I don't mind adding the to the plug-in

[WOK]

Well since the MIDI information is sotred in either presets or bganks it could be a good thing to have at least one. So that one can store the MIDI Leanr settings.

Shouldn't the VST-preset management (store, recall) be done by the host?

Not sure about "should" but yes It can be done by the host.
However I don't mind adding the to the plug-in

For not to confuse we should say "Preset" as the VST-preset, not the "Preset" on the GUI of BWTron (which should be named "Sound").
So at the top of the GUI there should just be added a field with the preset name, maybe two arrows and a "store" button and the rest stay as is. (done with the "patch info" module and evtl. 3rd party like "patch trigger")

[BlackWinny]

For not to confuse we should say "Preset" as the VST-preset, not the "Preset" on the GUI of BWTron (which should be named "Sound").

And even "Timbre", which is the exact word in the glossary of music (in French but also in English as far as I can remember) to talk about the sound (at a given instant, so independently of its dynamic along the time) of a musical instrument.


Timbre: The characteristic quality of a sound, independent of pitch and loudness, from which its source or manner of production can be inferred. Timbre depends on the relative strengths of the components of different frequencies, which are determined by resonance. (source: dictionary.com and a rather large consensus in the world of physics for this definition even if there are of course many very interesting discussions on the term since Helmholtz in 1885)

It is this definition (above in italics) that I learned during my studies in biology (so of course in the physics of the sensory perceptions) at the beginning of the 80's. I like it, I find it rather without ambiguities and it is this term "Timbre" that I'll use In BW-Tron for each one of the two columns... both together making musically a "Duet" (this last term that I shall not use of course on the GUI) given that they have an independent play due to the keyboard shift chosen by the musician on each column.

For me, "Preset" is a IT term related to a technical collection of data used by the IT designer (and user) only to store or retrieve these data, so it shouldn't appear in the field used to choose... a timbre.

[sfd]

When I think about it. Being able to save presets do make some sence here.

Apart form being able to store the MIDI settings one may want to store other settings as well. That would be useful for live performance.

You may want to be able to fast load a setup with selected sounds from teh two colums. With certian placement on teh keyboard and with certain adjustment to the envolope, reverb et cetera.

So I think preset management actually could make some sence here.

[BlackWinny]

Yes, of course. But the DAW already does that, doesn't it ?

Examples:

In Cubase (8.5):

• Loading VST Presets:
  • Procedure (from the instrument panel or from the Inspector):
    1. Do one of the following (as you prefer):
       • Select the track that contains the VST instrument and in the Inspector, click the Programs field.
       • In the VST Instruments window, click the Preset Browser button for the instrument, and select Load Preset. That's all.
       • In the control panel for the VST instrument, click the Preset Browser button, and select Load Preset. That's all.
    2. In the preset browser, select a preset from the list and double-click it to load it. That's all.
  • Result:
    • The preset is applied. To return to the previously loaded preset, open the preset browser again and click Revert to Last Setting.
• Saving VST Presets:
  • Procedure:
    1. Do one of the following (as you prefer):
       • In the VST Instruments window, click the Preset Browser button for the instrument, and select Save Preset. That's all.
       • In the control panel for the VST instrument, click the Preset Browser button, and select Save Preset. That's all.
    2. In the Save <VST instrument name> Preset dialog, enter a name for the preset.
    3. Optional: You can click Show Attribute Inspector and define attributes for the preset.
    4. Click OK to save the preset and close the dialog. That's all.

In Mulab, the procedure is extremely simple, you can't do more simple:

• Above the VST instrument, just click the wheel then choose Open bank/program or Save program or Save bank. That's all.
• And if it is a bank which is loaded, the first field above the panel allows to browse within the bank.

It's difficult to make more simple.



In Reaper, it is as simple as in Mulab:

• Just above the VST panel, click the small button "+" then "Import VST patch/bank file (fxp/fxb)" or "Export VST patch/bank file (fxp/fxb)".

Even an extremely simple host like SAVIHost does it the same way.


In fact, as long as there are no additional features in the built-in preset browser, write a preset browser on each VST it meant to reinvent the wheel in each VST. A built-in preset browser in a VST has a real interest only when there is a choice of additional features like a search field or selections by attributes, by categories, by sound designers, etc. Otherwise clicking in the VST panel or clicking in the DAW panel which surrounds the VST panel are two methods which summarize exactly the same number of clicks, and as quickly. Of course, a built-in preset browser with many features is the best dream one can have, especially on complex synths... but as long as that preset browser makes only a rudimentary load and save, why not just use the function which is already on ALL the DAWS ?

[Sparky77]

When I think about it. Being able to save presets do make some sence here.

There is always room to tweak.

[WOK]

In fact, as long as there are no additional features in the built-in preset browser, write a preset browser on each VST it meant to reinvent the wheel in each VST. A built-in preset browser in a VST has a real interest only when there is a choice of additional features like a search field or selections by attributes, by categories, by sound designers, etc. Otherwise clicking in the VST panel or clicking in the DAW panel which surrounds the VST panel are two methods which summarize exactly the same number of clicks,

Yeah, as said, every good host should support standard vst preset management.
There is just one good reason for a +/- button to switch preset on the GUI: easy to automate and it can be assigned to an external controller by MIDI learn (eg. live playing program switching)

[sfd]

In fact, as long as there are no additional features in the built-in preset browser, write a preset browser on each VST it meant to reinvent the wheel in each VST. A built-in preset browser in a VST has a real interest only when there is a choice of additional features like a search field or selections by attributes, by categories, by sound designers, etc. Otherwise clicking in the VST panel or clicking in the DAW panel which surrounds the VST panel are two methods which summarize exactly the same number of clicks,

Yeah, as said, every good host should support standard vst preset management.
There is just one good reason for a +/- button to switch preset on the GUI: easy to automate and it can be assigned to an external controller by MIDI learn (eg. live playing program switching)

That would very nice for live performance.

[BlackWinny]

Here is a new beta version (numbered 0.6d).

First, as you can see, I have tried a new organization of the GUI, it uses the same height and is just a bit wider.

Now let's see the suggestions which have been made.




By cruba:

Is a clickswitch planned?

Not for the moment, but it is on the to-do list, yes.




By cruba:

Is a loopmode planned?

The same. Not for the moment, but it is on the to-do list, yes. I have to see how I can technically manage the loop modes.




By ras.s:

- continuous fade between the A and B sounds. This isn't a big issue since the same result can be achieved setting it to play A+B and then adjusting the volume controls, but I think it would make it slightly easier to achieve the desired sound (effectively two knobs less).

Done. And with just ONE knob, as you will see.

And Volume A and Volume B both become obsolete, thanks Wolfgang!




By ras.s:

- own attack and release controls for both sounds.

Done.




By ras.s:

- plus a pan knob for both.

Done.

And each layer has also its own tone now.




By ras.s:

- a optional key split point, so that the musician could play, say, string chords with the left hand and a flute melody with the right hand. In particular if paired with the previous request, there could be strings with slow attack and long decays and a flute sound with quick attack and decay.

Done. By choosing the octaves used on the keyboard. On each set (each layer).




By Turello:

Hope You'll add an envelope section and some starting preset for the future!

To stick to the purpose (a Mellotron emulation), I highly prefer to have a very basical envelope: AR. Just to have a smoother attack and a smoother release. Maximum 1 second for each. But a full envelope (ADSR) would lead us to a situation really too close to a synth. Precisely what I would like to avoid.




By Turello:

About the presets, I would suggest a few presets based on popular songs...

Why not. For that purpose I shall ask for your contribution to you all who would be voluntaries to bring their knowledge of the popular songs (I think especially to 10cc, Aerosmith, Ange, Arthur Brown, Ashra Tempel, Asia, Barclay James Harvest, Peter Bauman, Beggars Opera, Black Sabbath, Chicago, Curved Air, Deep Purple, Déjà-Vu, Delirium, Eberhard Schoener, Ekseption, the Enid, Far East Family Band (the band where Kitaro began), Edgar Froese, Gandalf, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Goblin, Greenslade, Grobschnitt, Groundhogs, Steve Hackett, Jan Hammer, Peter Hammil, Herbie Hancock, Bo Hanson, Hawkwind, IQ, Jethro Tull, Ionesy, Elton John, Kayak, King Crimson, Kingdom Come, Kinks, Kitaro (especially in the first three albums of the huge collection "Silk Road)"), Klaus Shulze (mainly in "X"), Kraftwerk, Le Orme, Led Zeppelin, Manfred Mann's Earth Band, Phil Manzanera, Paul McCartney, the Moody Blues, Paric Moraz (ex swiss keyboardist of Yes), Mountain, Novalis, Omega, Orchestral Manoeuvre in the Dark, Outer Limits, Pallas, Pavlov's Dog, Anthony Phillips, Pink Floyd, Popol Vuh, Premiata Forneria Marconi, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Release Music Orchestra, Renaissance, Roxy Music, Todd Rundgren, Eberhard Schoener, Scorpions, Strawbs, Tangerine Dream, Isao Tomita, Uriah Heep, Van de Graaf Generator, Rick Wakeman, Yes...

The choice which is already present by the combination of instruments is very large as you will see. Because to the 10 basic sounds I have added all their combinations by couples, which leads to a total of 55 timbres at each set (each layer). What I would have loved to add is the male choir, the female choir and the children choir... but Taijiguy doesn't have these tapes and it seems that anybody hasn't sampled them to make them available for free as did Taijiguy for his sampleset. Maybe in the future...

When the plugin is ready, it will be stable enough to spend some little time to make good presets if some of you are voluntaries to bring their contribution. Everyone having at least one preset included will be of course clearly mentioned in the "About" panel (which will be a graphical panel, not a single humdrum "small text" panel).

But remember that the number of sampled tapes is (for the moment) limited to those offered by Taijiguy.




By sfd:

regarding MIDI Learn - As in all SynthEdit VST/VSTi the , MIDI Learn,settings can be saved in a preset or a bank. So you don't have to assign the MIDI CC every time you run the software. Just load the bank or preset with the saved settings.

I would like (but probably rather for a next update, I'm not sure I can figure it out as quickly as I would like) to make the MIDI Learn not "preset dependent" concerning the built-in presets, so that as soon as you switch this plugin on... you would have a choice among special personal files loaded regard the MIDI controllers which are used by the musician and regardless the presets he uses. Something in the kind of the management made by Gunnar Ekornas for his Memorymoon and his Messiah. I'm working on that kind of feature with small experimental homemade plugins. It will be of course for a future version. But I really would like to figure it out, it is obviously a very interesting challenge in Synthedit.




By sfd:

A little divider line between the A/B features and the general features at teh bottom would be nice.

I have reworked the organization of the GUI. I let you all tell me what you think of that new organization. It seems to me more rational than the previous one, without loosing the visibility of the things which are behind the plugin (the tracks, the DAW itself, etc.)

And if the size is a problem for too many of you in this thread, I can of course work again on it. It will be a kind of general agreement, not by a vote of course but by use of really convincing arguments (and which would be imperatively compatible with the comfortable use by the visually impaired persons, I point it out as a very important point, I remind you all that it was even my very first reason to make a new Mellotron emulation which would be at least as good as Redtron that I really love for its sound but which definitely can't fit for my eyes).




By ChamomileShark:

I am slightly visually impaired and I like the big gui. I'm finding the stark black and white contrast a bit difficult though.

Given that there will be several GUIs (see below) perhaps you'll find one which will fit for your eye. And as I wrote (it's not forgotten) I can find an additional solution for those who have big visual impairments, even if this plugin is made precisely in that purpose in priority (it was my motivation to start it).




I want to point out several other things:

1.

• The chorus is a bit improved. Nothing has changed in its way to work. Simply some tweaks to much better render the spatial depth.
• I have removed the spring reverb and replaced it by the famous UD-Reverb SE module which was made by Unkargherth & Dave Haupt (Thank you Wolfgang for your excellent suggestion). My spring reverb is nice but I keep it to distribute it as an external, independent effect plugin. Spring reverbs excel, as everybody knows, in the use of plucked strings, drums, effects, voices in caverns, etc... But they are not the best for bowed strings, choirs, flutes, etc. The same for the phasers and flangers, by the way (except with extremely fine tweaks of some phasers as made Tangerine Dream for example). Therefore I prefer to let everyone choose one's own phaser. Anyway... the built-in chorus in BW-Tron already contains some kind of "phasing" effects by a good use of its depth and its feedback with a rate set close to the minimum. It is very well heard with the mix of the string section on the set A with the 3 violins on the set B, both being at their middle state of tone.

2.
I have also removed the velocity sensibility. It is true that the play is much better without any velocity in a Mellotron emulation. Wolfgang and evilantal you were totally right.

There was a kind of velocity by the way the capstans pressed the tapes, but it was so painful to be usable that it was never really musically used. It was much more a kind of stunning technical fact, a kind of gadget eventually useless in the practice.




3.
I have removed all the values under knobs, even for the main volume.




4.
There are 4 independent audio outputs:

• Left final sound (effects included if used)
• Right final sound (effects included if used)
• Left raw sound (directly from the VCA, whatever the effects currently used after the VCA)
• Right raw sound (directly from the VCA, whatever the effects currently used after the VCA)

5.
About the DAWS. I have tested this new beta version 0.6d in Mulab, Cantabile, Reaper, and in VSThost and SAVIhost. Our friend sfd has tested it in Cubase 8.5. Being a plugin made with Synthedit I think that it should work in all the usual DAWS... as do all the plugins made with Synthedit.




6.
There are five skins:

• a "Black" skin (lacquered black slightly cracked by the age)
• a "White" skin (lacquered white very slightly cracked and faded by the sun)
• a "Ebony" skin
• a "Cuban mahogany" skin
• a "maple" skin

To change the skin, you simply click on the part "BW" of the logo "BW-Tron".

And if you click on the part "Tron" of the logo "BW-Tron" you can change the lateral sides among 5 models (+ a state without any side).

Here are thumbnails (66% resized, click the thumbnails to get the true size) of the five skins (with different lateral sides):










You can download this version 0.6d here:

• http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_06d.zip

I let you all test it as you want. And if it is good for you (of course probably not totally perfect) I'll release it at version 1.0 within the week.

[sfd]

This version of BW-Tron is rrealy very nice ! !
It's almost ridi ilous easy to use and it sounds absolutely great !

Well done !!!

[evilantal]

Wow! Thanks!

Gonna try it out this week and try to come up with some presets...

[BlackWinny]

Thanks sfd and evilantal.

I hope that there will be more beta testers for this quite simple plugin.

If you find issues don't hesitate to tell me, the way you want, so that I can fix them.


A little tip: to change the timbre of a set quicker than by browsing them one by one, you can also click on the name of the current timbre ("1 violin" for example) and a little popup list appears where you can scroll with the mouse wheel. There are 55 timbres available on each set (the ten basic timbres plus 45 duets).

[sfd]

I can inform that BW-Tron works well on Cubase 7.5 as well as on Cubase Artist 6

[BlackWinny]

I can inform that BW-Tron works well on Cubase 7.5 as well as on Cubase Artist 6

Good news. Thank you sfd !

[Turello]

Cool idea about a presets collaboration (glad to see you know/mentioned a lot of italian prog bands!), the problem is that at moment i'm full of work (actually my days are divided by rec, mix, mastering sessions) in studio and i'm afraid/suspect also my gilfriend would kill me!

Serious: I'll wait the official version to (try to) do something (obviously between matched by original and hear)...