Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[exmatproton]

Right.. that's good rationale. Very reminiscent of the times we live in. "Gee wiz.. if I can't understand something and the suggestion I gave, which is completely different and irrelevant, let's just call the problem non-existent or minor".

Well done sir.

If anybody is actually interested in understanding the issue I may give another go in explaining the reason for wanting a polyphonic EQ that can be modulated with keytracking range at a later stage. Right now I'm too tired to even bother.

Whoo....relax.

I use Falcon for a reason

Fact is, if they have a top 100 of requests and your request is number 9376...well.......

[bmanic]

The frustrating part is that nobody seems to understand how useful the feature is. It's about "polish". It's one of those things that still separates high-end sample libraries or high-end hardware workstation synths from the common everyday-a-dozen VSTi and sample library releases. Attention to detail.

This polyphonic EQ that can be mapped to keyboard range is one of these "secrets". Naturally in a sample library you process each sample separately and thus can get rid of bad resonances or enhance good parts so that the effect transposes naturally throughout the range. In a synthesizer you can do it with a keytracked EQ.

Basically what you can do is this: https://www.soundradix.com/products/surfer-eq/

.. but within the synth, for each polyphonic voice. Lets say you have the almost perfect synth bass sound but it's a bit "boomy". Well, the first thing a person would gravitate towards is an EQ. So you fix the note at C2. What happens when the synth line goes to E3? It's still a bit "thick" or "boomy" in an odd way. Guess you have to EQ a notch there too.. and so on. No, the correct way to do it is to find the actual problematic frequency within the original sound and then fix it with an EQ that is being key tracked. This way it always fixes the problem, no matter what key you end up at.

This is also a very effective way to do some "post-processing" for a silky smooth lead sound that is tightly controlled in the high-mids.

The whole reason I ask for this feature is because it's already pretty much implemented. There are two awesome EQ modules in the SHAPER section of the synth. The only thing required would be to have one option to remove the actual shaper and instead have the two EQs in the audio path.

Frankly, I'm still surprised how unknown this technique seems to be. This is _the way_ to get stuff extremely well controlled.. which is kind of the staple of today's "modern sound" (which many people dislike and call over-produced.. fair enough).

As for Falcon. Yeah, I have that too. If it wasn't for the horrendous GUI and workflow I'd probably use it more. It just doesn't gel with me at all. Avenger does.. in a way I haven't felt about a synth since Camel Audio Alchemy, which is still way more powerful than Avenger when it comes to attention to detail. Unfortunately it's actual sound quality wasn't all that great and the included sample content wasn't all that great either. One of the reasons I almost all the time ended up using the keytracked EQ trick to keep things sounding decent. Anyhow, Avenger is a synth with huge potential. This could be the definitive do-it-almost-all-synth which is still fun and engaging for the layman to use. This is the whole reason I'm hear asking for more power features. I don't feel like this feature request is crazy in any way. From my point of view it looks fairly simple to implement considering it's already 95% there.

[Soundplex]

I understand your point. But I also agree, there are things like the fft where you already can control the spectrum. And these changes are polyphonic, but maybe at the wrong stage in the chain. Personally I never had the feeling with any sound from any synth I need something like surfer eq as a polyphonic effect.

What you should consider too is: they have to work hard to even make the plugin work stable. It's some time since the release but it's still not fun working with it and all its issues. So your idea might come back into their minds when the more priority bugs got fixed

[msvs]

@bmanic

I understand what you meant already in your very first post. But still, it isnt *that* necessary, first because you should not have samples with such bad resonances (our factory doenst have), second, in most cases a normal EQ is enough; in mixing stage, if you want to lower at 80hz, you want to lower at 80hz no matter which notes are played. And third: a notch and the ANA peak filter would indeed work.

But to calm you down, I think the Shaper could be changed easily, to have a "non" distorting mode, just to use its EQs... I already added this to our "check for feasibility" list

[Trice]

I have a really minor problem with the icons of my expansions. When I first load the plugin there's nothing there and I have to "guess" where the right icon is. It's like the fade effect doesn't trigger correctly.

Again this is a minor problem, I don't wanna take up dev time. Just wondering if there's a quick fix. Cheers!

[bmanic]

@bmanic

I understand what you meant already in your very first post. But still, it isnt *that* necessary, first because you should not have samples with such bad resonances (our factory doenst have), second, in most cases a normal EQ is enough; in mixing stage, if you want to lower at 80hz, you want to lower at 80hz no matter which notes are played. And third: a notch and the ANA peak filter would indeed work.

But to calm you down, I think the Shaper could be changed easily, to have a "non" distorting mode, just to use its EQs... I already added this to our "check for feasibility" list

Awesome to hear. If it's possible to make a non-distortion mode, then the feature is right there, already implemented.

As for the usefulness, I'm still going to stand firm on this. This is a feature that none of you actually understand properly (read: You haven't used that technique before), very much demonstrated by your EQ example above. As far as I know, it was first added to Camel Audio Alchemy. It's ridiculously useful. Granted, it's way more powerful in Alchemy simply due to the MODMAPPER system (where any modulation source can be precisely mapped to any value ranges) but even in Avenger it could be very powerful when used together with the mod envelope.

Also, my point about samples was just as an example of when the technique is used offline when you prepare sample libraries. If it was just a case of simple static EQ then all samples would be run through a batch process of that one EQ. Obviously this is not the case.

There are quite a few presets in the factory library that would immediately benefit from the technique. Playing around with the factory content is actually what prompted me to make the request.

It's most likely one of these features that if it ever catches on, people will be like "duh.. why didn't we think of it". It's such a neat way of adding another level of control or polish to sounds. Not to mention all the cool stuff you can do with a precise mod envelope and two EQ nodes that can do both positive and negative gain, and have their Q controlled.

[msvs]

I have a really minor problem with the icons of my expansions. When I first load the plugin there's nothing there and I have to "guess" where the right icon is. It's like the fade effect doesn't trigger correctly.

Again this is a minor problem, I don't wanna take up dev time. Just wondering if there's a quick fix. Cheers!

could you pls write this to Rene?

[Trice]

I will do that!

[3Side]

- fixed legato note-off while a ARP is active in the routing but disabled in the arp section itself.

/im out

back to production with sweet Avenger

EDIT : Is there a way to snap to grid with velocity on ARP , and adjust the grid itself to make it more accurate ? (advance quantization)

like we all do with melodyne

[3Side]

The frustrating part is that nobody seems to understand how useful the feature is. It's about "polish".

No, I think we all understand this "feature". This feature is great when editing sample like they have in Nexus wich some have a Hi resonance EQ bell wich make bad resonance..(this apply with sample made by the original sound designer). When you make your own patch with Avenger (or even use Avenger Preset, no wonder why Avenger expansion is expensive), you shouldnt have this problem. Even if you use Nexus sample, its not a big problem because it will be fixed in mixing stage (if you dont know how to mix it will be another story, but not a main problem)

There are quite a few presets in the factory library that would immediately benefit from the technique. Playing around with the factory content is actually what prompted me to make the request."

Alright then make a track and the I will see if you are right or not... (if you wanna challenge me with the same preset im down to do it )

[kevvvvv]

bmanic, interesting how you look for polish. I certainly get what you're saying.

I don't get into sound design much, unlike many in this thread.

But I'm finding each time I go to Avenger that it's very easy to pick a good sound as they're all of a v high quality. Polished, finished works.

eg, I'm in a creative mood and go browsing for a sound to put to a backbeat, and v quickly I find something that sounds good.

Interestingly I don't necessarily find exactly the type of sound I'm looking for. I often get something unexpected, but it works all the same, and carries my ideas forward, and the tunes pour out quickly.

Maybe I'm lucky with Avenger this way.

I never had the same experience with Spire, which I readily acknowledge is a great synth, but it always seemed to take ages to find a sound I liked for the song I was working on.

I think it's great the way designers in this thread are pushing the boundaries with Avenger (and the smart way msvs responds)

I very much feel I'm the fortunate recipient of all these efforts, so thank you all

[ansolas]

The ability to switch the modulation from unipolar to bi-polar would be a nice feature

[Sampleconstruct]

The ability to switch the modulation from unipolar to bi-polar would be a nice feature

That's already possible in the LFO section. Mod envelopes are unipolar by design (but if you edit them correctly, you can make them have a bipolar effect), so are steppers.

[ansolas]

The ability to switch the modulation from unipolar to bi-polar would be a nice feature

That's already possible in the LFO section. Mod envelopes are unipolar by design (but if you edit them correctly, you can make them have a bipolar effect), so are steppers.

Ahh nice , you refer to the offset no ?

[Sampleconstruct]

The ability to switch the modulation from unipolar to bi-polar would be a nice feature

That's already possible in the LFO section. Mod envelopes are unipolar by design (but if you edit them correctly, you can make them have a bipolar effect), so are steppers.

Ahh nice , you refer to the offset no ?

Yes, LFO offset, so you can also dial in small doses of polarity which is very useful.