Hi guys,
Not something im particularly familiar with but I have a few tracks on vinyl that dont sound particularly great once recorded and exported as MP3.
I understand the quality cant neccessarily be improved but i'm thinking they need better clarity and power in the low end in some cases. Is it as simple as messing around with an EQ on them? Any particular techniques used here or just avoid?
Thanks!
'Improving' quality of ripped vinyl/old tracks for club systems
-
- KVRAF
- 15273 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
First figure out where the sound quality issue exactly is...
Perhaps the vinyls themselves have worn out, or the needle or element of your turntable isn't that good, or something else in the chain inbetween the vinyl and inputs of your audio interface (e.g. the phono preamp) is not up to the job.
If you use quality stuff paired with a good audio interface, then the digital recording should sound the same as if you'd play the original vinyls.
After the recording comes the MP3 conversion. If you use 192kbps or above, then it's not very likely it's the MP3 encoding doing actual damage.
So yes, if you want more oomph and brightness, by all means inserting an EQ is the most logical way to go...
Perhaps the vinyls themselves have worn out, or the needle or element of your turntable isn't that good, or something else in the chain inbetween the vinyl and inputs of your audio interface (e.g. the phono preamp) is not up to the job.
If you use quality stuff paired with a good audio interface, then the digital recording should sound the same as if you'd play the original vinyls.
After the recording comes the MP3 conversion. If you use 192kbps or above, then it's not very likely it's the MP3 encoding doing actual damage.
So yes, if you want more oomph and brightness, by all means inserting an EQ is the most logical way to go...
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. 
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
My MusicCalc is served over https!!
-
- KVRAF
- 3508 posts since 12 May, 2011
Wasn't the low end on vinyl restricted, because the stylus would leap out of the groove? So if you boost the low end all you'll get will be a lot of rumble?
How old are the original vinyl recordings? It was only in the '80s that the quality of sound became, um, good. Records from the 70s and earlier tend to be really crap, sound-wise.
How old are the original vinyl recordings? It was only in the '80s that the quality of sound became, um, good. Records from the 70s and earlier tend to be really crap, sound-wise.
-
- KVRAF
- 40253 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from clown world
Get a digital version online.
Repair the files with iZotope RX.
iZotope used to have a product for repairing very old records. Can't remember the name. Maybe it's not available anymore.
Investigate techniques for transferring vinyl into your computer. There may be benifits to doing things differently.
Repair the files with iZotope RX.
iZotope used to have a product for repairing very old records. Can't remember the name. Maybe it's not available anymore.
Investigate techniques for transferring vinyl into your computer. There may be benifits to doing things differently.
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
-
- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Even with the right tools/plugins, it's quite tedious to "clean" old records. I've done that with a couple of records in Wavelab, back in the days. Not only did i have to remove many pops and crackles manually, because the declickers, depoppers, and denoise have to be applied sensibly, to not remove too much of the desired signal... so, if you removed the critical clicks, you'll have to find out a profile/settings for those plugins, and when you applied it, you still have some background noise. And when the record is in a bad condition, then you will have a lot of distortion too, and generally, it will sound sucky. Not to talk about EQ'ing the thing to get a better sound out of it. PITA really.
Did i mention that i hate vinyl for those very reasons?
Did i mention that i hate vinyl for those very reasons?
-
- KVRian
- 1092 posts since 1 Jul, 2008
There are a lot of poor quality pressings out there, and I've always found there to be significant differences in volume and dynamics between records. This requires constant attention, whether playing in a set or recording.
What's your recording setup? I'm also just starting out on the process of digitising my vinyl collection. I'd prefer to keep it, but practicalities etc.
I bought a decent pre-amp for the money - the ART DJPRE II - which has the added advantage of a volume trim/boost knob. Very handy and sounds good to me. I also got a new Ortofon cartridge which distorted or skipped if the tone arm wasn't set just right, and I had to do this each time. I went back to a heavier Ortofon cartridge, which doesn't have this problem.
Once set-up I needed to spend considerable time just listening and tweaking the setup for the best signal. Sometimes it's necessary to ride the trim knob a bit, and for many better-quality records, I've need to reduce the input for an optimal signal. I record onto a Zoom R24, either direct or into a DAW. The wav files get stored, and for now I'm generating 360kbps mps3, which is fine for my purposes. I can always re-encode, but for playing out I will use the wavs.
So far I've been getting nice and consistent results this way, without resorting to EQ or other post-processing (I use the DJ software eq instead).
Not feeling so bad about losing my collection now. Digital DJing might not have the cool factor of a master on 2 decks, but it's a HELL of a lot more convenient and fun.
What's your recording setup? I'm also just starting out on the process of digitising my vinyl collection. I'd prefer to keep it, but practicalities etc.
I bought a decent pre-amp for the money - the ART DJPRE II - which has the added advantage of a volume trim/boost knob. Very handy and sounds good to me. I also got a new Ortofon cartridge which distorted or skipped if the tone arm wasn't set just right, and I had to do this each time. I went back to a heavier Ortofon cartridge, which doesn't have this problem.
Once set-up I needed to spend considerable time just listening and tweaking the setup for the best signal. Sometimes it's necessary to ride the trim knob a bit, and for many better-quality records, I've need to reduce the input for an optimal signal. I record onto a Zoom R24, either direct or into a DAW. The wav files get stored, and for now I'm generating 360kbps mps3, which is fine for my purposes. I can always re-encode, but for playing out I will use the wavs.
So far I've been getting nice and consistent results this way, without resorting to EQ or other post-processing (I use the DJ software eq instead).
Not feeling so bad about losing my collection now. Digital DJing might not have the cool factor of a master on 2 decks, but it's a HELL of a lot more convenient and fun.
-
- KVRAF
- 3477 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
It really depends on what you're comparing them to. Do they sound weak compared to other vinyl records you've ripped, or weak compared to pure 'native' digital masters. Also, are you recording them from the output of a decent amp with a phono input (not line-in) that takes into account the RIAA curve? I gather some turntables now have this built in and output a line signal, but the mention of things sounding bass-light has me wondering if that's your issue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization
Sure, there are physical limitations to vinyl regarding the interaction of bass/volume/dynamics (although less so on DJ cuts where one or two tracks take up the whole side), but I'd still expect a tonally balanced result compared to native digital once volume and dynamics have been normalised. Apart from the odd really shitty pressing, I usually found that all I needed to do to make vinyl transparently match digital for radio was give the vinyl a quick pass through the limiter.
With regard to club system playback, if record A sounds crap compared to record B when ripped, record A would have sounded crap compared to record B on a club system too. Not really a great deal you can do about that other than EQ and volume match appropriately when you're a vinyl DJ, and we always seemed to manage. Depending on the place you're playing, you may not even notice though. I DJed quite a bit throughout my 20s and the club sound system was the limiting factor for me every single time. Whichever DJ was on after/before me would invariably have everything distorted and pegged into the red, so I had to follow suit. I sometimes even had to limit my stuff in the box while mixing to match the vinyl volume if I was going back-to-back playing one record each with a vinyl DJ (using my Novation Nio, which I bought partially on the reviews saying it had lots of output volume to make it competitive in clubs). I mean if you're playing somewhere slick with headroom to spare and a Funktion One, fair enough, but it was always my experience that club soundsystem inadequacies and other DJs were the limiting factor rather than anything intrinsic to the recordings being played, regardless of whether I was spinning vinyl or digital.
Sure, there are physical limitations to vinyl regarding the interaction of bass/volume/dynamics (although less so on DJ cuts where one or two tracks take up the whole side), but I'd still expect a tonally balanced result compared to native digital once volume and dynamics have been normalised. Apart from the odd really shitty pressing, I usually found that all I needed to do to make vinyl transparently match digital for radio was give the vinyl a quick pass through the limiter.
With regard to club system playback, if record A sounds crap compared to record B when ripped, record A would have sounded crap compared to record B on a club system too. Not really a great deal you can do about that other than EQ and volume match appropriately when you're a vinyl DJ, and we always seemed to manage. Depending on the place you're playing, you may not even notice though. I DJed quite a bit throughout my 20s and the club sound system was the limiting factor for me every single time. Whichever DJ was on after/before me would invariably have everything distorted and pegged into the red, so I had to follow suit. I sometimes even had to limit my stuff in the box while mixing to match the vinyl volume if I was going back-to-back playing one record each with a vinyl DJ (using my Novation Nio, which I bought partially on the reviews saying it had lots of output volume to make it competitive in clubs). I mean if you're playing somewhere slick with headroom to spare and a Funktion One, fair enough, but it was always my experience that club soundsystem inadequacies and other DJs were the limiting factor rather than anything intrinsic to the recordings being played, regardless of whether I was spinning vinyl or digital.
