Melda limiters

[alexis1]

Hi -

Melda has 3 products listed in the "limiter" category. Would someone please point me to a comparison vid or writeup of them?

I have the Cubase brick wall and maximizer limiters. I've also been reading about Fabfilter's Pro-L, and DMG's limiter. Does anyone here have experience with these to compare with Melda limiters?

Thanks!

[Svama]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ylwxMYote0&t=1s

[MeldaProduction]

It depends on what you want, but for acoustic stuff try MDynamicsLimiter, which will be similar to ProL and DMG's one, if you want more loudness & spectral flattening, try MMultiBandLimiter. The world is finally heading towards lower loudness direction, so you shouldn't need too much limiting and soon the limiters should hopefully be just technical device without the need to maximize loudness. Hopefully .

[alexis1]

Thank you, Svama and Mr. Melda! I had been looking for that vid, which I'd watched some time ago, but couldn't find it ... time to watch again ... thanks!

Yes, Mr. Melda, it is for mainly acoustic stuff, thank you. I will trial MDynamicsLimiter as you suggest, or even purchase for $50 on this 1/2 off sale I see going on now. For my education and understanding, what characteristic(s) of MDynamicsLimiter make it better than MMultiband Limiter (and MUltramaximizer) for acoustic material?

And ... for someone who is a minimal tweaker, but not a 100% set/forget kind of guy either, where would MDynamics Limiter shine over Pro-L, DMG Limitless, and Cubase's Brick Wall and new Maximizer ... or vice versa? GUI is important to me in terms of ease of use and getting good sounds without *necessarily* having to go deep into tweakdom ...

Thanks again!

[Alphacodex]

Hi Name is Vojtech by the way (although... is that your real name?)

[jmg8]

Well in version 11 (which will be a free update) there will be a very enhanced easy screen which should have some new presets. This should help a lot with easy tweaking without digging very deep.
A single band limiter (MDynamicsLimiter) will not change the frequency spectrum like a multiband limiter will.

[alexis1]

Yes, thanks - having seen the vid again, it is suggested the advantage of the single band limiter (MDynamicsLimiter) is that it doesn't cause spectral flattening, though it doesn't get as loud as the other two Melda limiters (MMultiBand Limiter, MUltramizer), and it is more prone to pumping than the other two (if I'm understanding/hearing the vid correctly).

Does anyone here use any of those other (non-Melda) limiters I mentioned (Pro-L, DMG Limitless, the new Cubase Brick Wall and Maximizer limiters?

Thanks!

[alexis1]

Hi Name is Vojtech by the way (although... is that your real name?)

I always look at his sig because I don't actually know/can't remember, but he doesn't put his name there!

I use Mr. Melda with much respect ...

[Alphacodex]

Now back on topic:
I have the Pro-L and the Voxengo Elephant. However I use the Pro-L mainly for metering, safety limiting and dithering as the last plugin in my chain. I seldom let it do more than 1-3dB recently. I changed my perspective on making my music loud anyway. I usually aim for a PLR of about 8dB, for tracks I release to the public I have them mastered by a mastering studio anyway and for personal stuff that is loud enough. To reach -8dB I dont need to push my limiters too hard when I did my homework before entering the mastering stage. In the last years, I learned loudness does not come from the new shiny super-limiter, it begins right in your composition and even in your recording if you work with acoustic stuff. If you aim for loudness and your composition and recording takes that into account, the next big part happens at mixing. Mastering really should only need to do very little in the end, so most limiting tools seem a bit overpowered to me nowadays. Also I usually get better results with subtle saturation in multiple stages and a good clipper than with a lot of compression and limiting.
But I do remember that I was at the exact same point some years ago. I thought: If I just had that super-duper limiter and know how to use it, I could make all my tracks super loud. That's when I bought Elephant and than the Pro-L. But on unfitting material both can't do a lot.
I really like the Pro-L and it's still part of my workflow because I'm used to it but it really isn't doing much. I could probably use the DAWs built in limiter as well.

Cheers,
Codex

[alexis1]

Now back on topic:
I have the Pro-L and the Voxengo Elephant. However I use the Pro-L mainly for metering, safety limiting and dithering as the last plugin in my chain. I seldom let it do more than 1-3dB recently. I changed my perspective on making my music loud anyway. I usually aim for a PLR of about 8dB, for tracks I release to the public I have them mastered by a mastering studio anyway and for personal stuff that is loud enough. To reach -8dB I dont need to push my limiters too hard when I did my homework before entering the mastering stage ...

The bits in red ... would that be the same as -8 LUFS?

I really like the Pro-L and it's still part of my workflow because I'm used to it but it really isn't doing much. I could probably use the DAWs built in limiter as well.

The Melda vid suggested that it is easier to get pumping with the Cubase limiter than the Melda ones. Have you had occasion to use any of the Melda Limiters ... and if so, what do you like more about the Pro-L?

Thanks -

[_al_]

Hi Name is Vojtech by the way (although... is that your real name?)

Vojtech Meluzin is his official name for his company. dunno if its his real name though. it does sound chzech though (or however you spell that)

[Alphacodex]

@alexis: I set up the Pro-L to use the K-12 System (from Bob Katz), which basically is RMS with a K-Weighting on a scale from 0-12dB. If I remember correctly in it's actual version 2 the K-Values and LU values are the same. Even if there was a difference (like a slightly different weighting curve or slightly different averaging times) the difference would be neglectable. You can safely go by the rule: 1db on the K-12 scale = 1 LU
Some time ago there was a bit of a race which metering system would be the next standard - by now I'd say the LU system made the race, so I think all plugin and DAW developers should go for it. I even hope that FabFilter will fully implement it with a future update. The only other scale I regularly use is the dBVU system, which is a simulation of analog dbVU meters. It has its reference point at -18dBVU. I use that one because many plugins that are modeled after analog gear are (like their analog counterparts) optimized for that range and sound best there, so I make sure I gain stage to -18dBVU per channel for those plugins.

For your other question: When I bought the Pro-L I did some comparisons with rather extreme pushing on the material. I compared the Pro-L against, the cubase Maximizer and the MUltraMaximizer. I did not watch the limiting video from melda at that time (was it even out?), so I did not try MDynamicsLimiter and MMultiBandLimiter or MSpectralDynamics.
At that time the Pro-L gave me the most transparent result (meaning least perceivable). However as always: Melda plugins are pretty powerful and therefore it's sometimes a bit harder to set them up and to find the sweet spot. Today I'm pretty sure I could get the same or even better results out of the Melda plugins if I take abit more time.
But again: With only doing -1 to -3dB of gain reduction you could use pretty any limiter even the cubase one would be sufficient.
Getting loudness in your mix happens long before the material reaches the limiter...

Cheers,
Codex

[alexis1]

@alexis: I set up the Pro-L to use the K-12 System (from Bob Katz), which basically is RMS with a K-Weighting on a scale from 0-12dB. If I remember correctly in it's actual version 2 the K-Values and LU values are the same. Even if there was a difference (like a slightly different weighting curve or slightly different averaging times) the difference would be neglectable. You can safely go by the rule: 1db on the K-12 scale = 1 LU
Some time ago there was a bit of a race which metering system would be the next standard - by now I'd say the LU system made the race, so I think all plugin and DAW developers should go for it. I even hope that FabFilter will fully implement it with a future update. The only other scale I regularly use is the dBVU system, which is a simulation of analog dbVU meters. It has its reference point at -18dBVU. I use that one because many plugins that are modeled after analog gear are (like their analog counterparts) optimized for that range and sound best there, so I make sure I gain stage to -18dBVU per channel for those plugins.

For your other question: When I bought the Pro-L I did some comparisons with rather extreme pushing on the material. I compared the Pro-L against, the cubase Maximizer and the MUltraMaximizer. I did not watch the limiting video from melda at that time (was it even out?), so I did not try MDynamicsLimiter and MMultiBandLimiter or MSpectralDynamics.
At that time the Pro-L gave me the most transparent result (meaning least perceivable). However as always: Melda plugins are pretty powerful and therefore it's sometimes a bit harder to set them up and to find the sweet spot. Today I'm pretty sure I could get the same or even better results out of the Melda plugins if I take abit more time.
But again: With only doing -1 to -3dB of gain reduction you could use pretty any limiter even the cubase one would be sufficient.
Getting loudness in your mix happens long before the material reaches the limiter...

Cheers,
Codex

Thanks, Codex!

That was a lot of great info, with a lot of helpful detail to work through - not something to read in a drive-by fashion!

I usually limit my "acoustic" productions to 3-5 dBFS GR, to achieve a target LUFS of -15. Being just an inexperienced home hobbyist I think rather than buy new plugs I'll listen more critically for any artifacts (pumping, etc), and if present I'll work on the source tracks a bit more, all before spending more money.

Thanks again!

[mike_the_ranger]

I recently tested some limiters. FabFilter Pro-L and Toneboosters Barricade did the best jobs on different sounds. Then there was a brickwall limiter from the PowerCore dsp card. The Meldaproduction ones did not pump but started to slightly distort the peaks. Btw where are the dither settings in the Melda ones? Also why is MLimiter no limiter? That was surprising

[Alphacodex]

One of the biggest eye-openers in the last years for me in that particular area was:
- If you aim for overall loudness, per channel saturation is your biggest friend.

I'd even lean out of the windows and claim that compressors and limiters are NOT the first tools to get overall loudness. I will also give you the reason why:

To get loudness in the digital domain you need to deal with those short peaks. Those peaks will cause nasty digital clipping if you just dont care and raise the volume (in the analog domain it is a different story).

Compressor: A compressor will decrease the dynamic und thus can help to make something more dense, stable and perceivable but it will not deal with those short peaks, because even a compressor with zero attack time will let that initial peak slip through (remember even a compressor with zero attack time only STARTS to decrease volume right after it crosses the threshold, and usually you even dont want a compressor with zero attack for other reasons). But if you dont deal with the peaks you can't raise the volume after compressing, because the peak is still there and would clip.

Limiter or let's even say a look-ahead Limiter: This one should deal with the peaks, but it will also destroy your transients and your punch if they dont incorporate other special algorithms to keep the punch (which in the end would be something very similar if not the same than saturation / distortion).

So to get to the heart of it : If you go for loudness you have to introduce distortion. Period However you'll try to introduce "nice sounding distortion" not "nasty soinding distortion" (like digital distortion).