How to see RMS level?

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Hi guys,

I am familiar with Fabfilter's Limiters RMS level, and also Tracks metering RMS level metering.
So familiar that I don't know how else to measure the RMS.

So is there a way to see the RMS level in Melda plugins anywhere?

Thanks!!!

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Not in most of the plug-ins, but have a look at MLoudnessAnalyzer.

I'm not sure exactly how the RMS value is T-RackS is calculated / calibrated.
DarkStar, ... Interesting, if true
Inspired by ...

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yep I did , but not found anything.
How do YOU measure loudness for commercial? Perhaps my way with RMS is wrong?
Maybe Vojtech can help?

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In some melda plugins you will find LU or LUFS values. You can interpret them as RMS values mostly. There are two problems with RMS values. As RMS values are mean values you must set a time constant of how long the signal is averaged - but this time constant is not commonly defined for RMS values. Also RMS values are a correct mathematical mean, but they do not take our hearing curve into account (we hear certain frequencies better than others).
Both is defined in the LU domain. As far as I know LU actually is a K-Weighted RMS with specified averaging times for momentary (400ms), short term (3s) and integrated (full track) LU values.

So in a nutshell: Just use LU instead of RMS it's the better value anyway....
Last edited by Alphacodex on Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Oh and regarding commercial metering: At least in germany nearly all broadcast studios have agreed to normalize their material to -23 LUFS (Integrated), so that should be your target loudness...
Music production is not yet as standardized, there are different standards:
YouTube: -13 LUFS
Spotify: -11 LUFS
Apple Music: -16 LUFS

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Just a quick summary - short-term & momentary loudness (LU or LUFS) are loudness metering standards, which are just slightly more complex RMS. Once you have that, having RMS is pointless. But you can still right-click on the meters and disable prefiltering, which will get you RMS.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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^^^^
I didn't know that. It would be worth adding the bit about RMS to the text in the right-click menu(s) for those meters.
DarkStar, ... Interesting, if true
Inspired by ...

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Hi there.

Disabling the filtering doesn't makes the same value as Pro-L's RMS for example
But I guess I should learn the LUFS thing.

Thanks

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Please check what mode the metering in Pro-L ist set to, when you compare. Basically there are two modes:
The standard mode uses RMS with an averaging time of 2000ms (so it's inbetween momentary and short term LUs). They dont say anything about prefiltering on this way also.

The other mode is the K-System, it should have weighting curve and integration times should be the same as in the LU scale. However as far as I know there are two versions of the K-Systems. In the original weighting and averaging times where not compatible to the LU system, whereas in Version 2 they are. No word on the FabFilter site, which version they implemented. So this might also be a reason why you get different values. However in any case LU and K should not be far apart.

Cheers,
Codex

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I dug a bit deeper and found out that the original K-System of Bob Katz had an averagin time of 600ms and no weighting at all making it react to low level frequencies a lot more than weighted systems (like the EBU R128 LU system).

The version 2 I refered to, was a further developement of a guy called compyfox (he is also active in this forum) that was implicitly accepted by Bob Katz (at least that's what he wrote). It's an adaption of the K-System adding the weighting / prefiltering and changing the average time to 400ms. So theoretically 0 dB on a K-16v2 meter should be the same as -16LUFS in the digital domain.

Here's the document I had in mind, it describes the further developement of the K-System.

http://techblog.studio-compyfox.de/medi ... tem_v2.pdf

Because there is no mention of a "v2" in the Pro-L I strongly assume, they use the original K-System which is incompatible to the LU system, especially with material with high bass-energy you will get significant differences...

By the way:
It is proposed to use the K-16v2 for music production and the K-12 for broadcast, but I confess myself guilty of using the K-12 system for my productions and also constantly hitting +4dB on it on the loudest parts...

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Good discussion here, from Compyfox:
viewtopic.php?p=5193847
DarkStar, ... Interesting, if true
Inspired by ...

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I would recommend not comparing the values, there may be some more complex stuff in the core. I for instance think that K system is just obsolete, now we are on LU. There's probably no need to stick to the old ways, because as far as I know no standard really requires you to comply to some RMS or something. So just get your head around LU, that's pretty much the future, for now :D
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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I agree, unfortunately not all plugin developers already switched to LU, so for a certain transitional period we might be in the need to use different system beside each other and therefore know how to convert them into each other...

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Yes, but all Melda plugins use LU, so the solution is to use Melda only! :D
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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Ok... you challenge me ... however then I'd need:

- MVocAlign (nothing like it in the Melda Arsenal, right?)
- MVocalSynth (although I can get pretty close with MMorph)
- MArtillery (although I could build something similar in MXXX with a lot of sweat of course)
- MDecapitator (it's saturation modes go beyond the saturation that Melda Plugins offer)
- MClip (a really good aliasing free clipper - or did I overlook a Melda Plugin that does this already?)

Actually when I started to go through my plugin-list I expected that the upper list would be longer - but to be honest most plugins could already be substituted by Melda ones...

Cheers,
Codex

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