Orchestral library

[Ah_Dziz]

I would look for a used copy of the library. Then you'll most likely get the eLicenser dongle included.

[nineofkings]

Yes, VSL needs a dongle. I bought a used copy with dongle included, and subsequently had my backpack stolen with the dongle in it, which is why my praise of VSL is more muted than others'. It's an incredible bunch of libraries, but you have to commit to having the hardware forever cause it can't be replaced.

[topaz]

My Advise would be use the external VSL ensemble to host the library as it will perform much better than live.

you only need dongle, it runs as VST AU AXX etc. you do not need kontakt.

word of warning though, Live 9 compared to Cubase/Logic (only ones i tested) is at least 50% less efficient.

so you could do yourself a huge favour and get Logic Pro X for orchestral work.

ps, I love live and made my last album in it but CPU wise with large orchestral libs it's appalling..

Thank you topaz!
Ok, I understand about using Ableton Live with VSL and I was waiting for an answer like this, it is just sort of demand I can get rid of. Even though I own a MacBook Pro 15" mid-2014, 2.2 GHz i7 Quad, 16 GB RAM, SSD... you say that it's not sufficient to use VSL live with Ableton Live?

Maybe I used the wrong word, sorry for insisting, but I wanna be sure I've asked the right thing: in the Vienna website, I read that I need a USB key (which I understand it's the same thing as "dongle", right?). So, do I need a USB key to run VSL or some other thing?
Thank you again

[Mister Gibson]

Inappropriate content

[padillac]

If you want to use it with Sibelius, make sure there's a soundset for it - http://www.soundsetproject.com has a whole bunch (note that they require full Sibelius, not Sibelius first).

[PastorTheDoctor]

The dongle is the same as is used by cubase and a few other companies. In addition to the Vienna instrument sample player, you also get the Vienna ensemble (not pro) software to host many instances of Vienna instruments multitimbrally. So as far as getting the instruments going you'll have no trouble as the player is included.

Thank you! So, the dongle is still a USB key!
If I'm using the plug-in and, for some reason, USB disconnects, does the plug in continue to work or it stops?

[jancivil]

The other thing about VSL is their 'instrument', their engine is still superior in terms of organization and power for a composer. There are Kontakt UIs that are very good but the coders of such a thing hit a wall with that basic UI, to my way of thinking anyway. It would take too much typing for me right now to really even begin to show the differences.

And as mentioned, the memory footprint... and VE Pro. Per the latter, the VE Pro engine provides a way to very quickly optimize everything VSL that's loaded to use only what you showed it you're using. And in the Vienna Instruments Pro to disable any/all cells that you won't be using this project, or this stage of this project so you can load your full template with no worries about it immediately bringing your system to its knees.

I'll never forget someone asking about upright bass in a Trilian-oriented thread. I looked at the RAM it was using with a relatively fully-loaded patch vs VSL Upright Bass, the latter so much more in terms of articulations it's insane, and the Trilian was using like 10x more RAM.

The thing against it you'll see in this type of forum is that it's so 'dry', that you don't get this 'big' sound out-of-the-box, so while Trilian is already (over-) produced, or Orchestral Essentials by Project Sam is already produced, VSL is not, at all. Although now if you opt for the MIRx (EDIT: INSIDE VI Pro 2) the things are placed onstage 'properly' (although there is no real consensus in the world about it) and all this, the samples are all recorded on the Dry Stage so it's your decision more or less.

So, starting with the SE you can expand on out from there with compatible libraries from them.

Oh, and the Vienna Ensemble Pro vs not-Pro, the latter cannot deal in 3rd party instruments, is the difference.

All this being said, I use a hell of a lot of Kontakt. And I'm majorly impressed by the Soundiron orchestral stuff NI sells.

In terms of really convincing and the money described in the OP, you *are* asking too much. BUT in my estimation your choice is 'correct' and that's your best start, rather than *any* deal from EWQL.
The instrument they make is just not in the least competitive with VI. Kontakt, well a lot of entities have really stepped up the last few yrs with serious power. It's a matter of how accessible... look at their videos, VSL, they're good at making complexity understandable.

[jancivil]

So, the dongle is still a USB key!
If I'm using the plug-in and, for some reason, USB disconnects, does the plug in continue to work or it stops?

You only need the dongle in for the things to launch. Then you can take it out if you have to.

[jancivil]

Yes, VSL needs a dongle. I bought a used copy with dongle included, and subsequently had my backpack stolen with the dongle in it, which is why my praise of VSL is more muted than others'. It's an incredible bunch of libraries, but you have to commit to having the hardware forever cause it can't be replaced.

It can, but it will cost you half of their current price for the library. And they stand firm on this, sob story notwithstanding. That said, I had VE Pro, Vienna Suite, and VI Pro 2 licenses that had not been used and they simply replaced these (their rep did the research on that, I had not brought it up and didn't even know. You get 3 for VE Pro and Vienna Suite.).
Same lost key as my Cubase 5 license and Steinberg replaced that (which I needed for the C9 activation) for free, though.

So far, half their current price for a library was notably less than half of what I paid.

[jancivil]

word of warning though, Live 9 compared to Cubase/Logic (only ones i tested) is at least 50% less efficient.

so you could do yourself a huge favour and get Logic Pro X for orchestral work.

ps, I love live and made my last album in it but CPU wise with large orchestral libs it's appalling..

Thank you topaz!
Ok, I understand about using Ableton Live with VSL and I was waiting for an answer like this, it is just sort of demand I can get rid of. Even though I own a MacBook Pro 15" mid-2014, 2.2 GHz i7 Quad, 16 GB RAM, SSD... you say that it's not sufficient to use VSL live with Ableton Live?

I have never used Ableton Live.

Here's the thing about VSL, is it's evident they use Cubase. They've created Expression templates, meaning the articulations for particular things corresponds with score markings so if you use dynamics or staccato, hairpin cresc/diminuendi instead of marking it up with keyswitches etc. I don't work that way, but some people working primarily from a score care about it. But, someone has created the same basic thing for Logic a couple yrs back.

Also it's a PITA to set VE Pro up 'multimbral' (multi-outputs) in Logic (do a search) while in Cubase it's a very simple matter. That said, numerous people use Logic, incl. people you've probably heard of.
I use VE Pro sometimes as if it's an FX rack, sending audio tracks to it and this is complicated in Logic, requiring 'Event Input' plug-in. I never did suss it.

[planetearth]

Have you looked at Miroslav Philharmonik? They've just updated it to a new version with a new sound engine and new samples. Multi-timbral, full sound, many articulations, and not too heavy on the CPU usage. All of the instruments in this (https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife/sunrise) are from Miroslav's previous Philharmonik library.

EastWest Quantum Leap's having a sale on their orchestra libraries. Half-off right now, I think.

And PlugIn Boutique is offering SONiVOX's individual orchestra section libraries for $9.99 each. These aren't the greatest, but they offer several articulations (I believe), and are very low-footprint samples.

There are some free orchestra libraries you may also want to check out, to "fill out" some of the sounds of some of these libraries. Bedroom Producer's Blog has a good list (including a new one out just this week), and some websites offer very good, consistent samples of orchestra sections for free, though you have to "build" your own orchestra in your sampler that way.

Here's the new, free library from BigCat Instruments which just came out this week: http://bigcatinstruments.blogspot.com/

Steve

Thank you Steve for all those suggestions, but none of those plug-ins have good sound, multitimbral, good number of articulation, low CPU allocation at the same time.

Oops! My mistake, I'm sorry. I thought you wanted it for "40 /50 €".

That's what I get for trying to read this on my phone!

Steve

[PastorTheDoctor]

Thank you guys for all your suggestions! They're helping me understand a lot.

Oops! My mistake, I'm sorry. I thought you wanted it for "40 /50 €".

That's what I get for trying to read this on my phone!

Don't worry Steve, it happens to me every time

If you want to use it with Sibelius, make sure there's a soundset for it - http://www.soundsetproject.com has a whole bunch (note that they require full Sibelius, not Sibelius first).

OK!

Oh, and the Vienna Ensemble Pro vs not-Pro, the latter cannot deal in 3rd party instruments, is the difference.

THANK YOU your replies are very very in-depth and useful. Sorry I didn't got the meaning of "deal in 3rd party instruments".

I have never used Ableton Live.

Here's the thing about VSL, is it's evident they use Cubase. They've created Expression templates, meaning the articulations for particular things corresponds with score markings so if you use dynamics or staccato, hairpin cresc/diminuendi instead of marking it up with keyswitches etc. I don't work that way, but some people working primarily from a score care about it. But, someone has created the same basic thing for Logic a couple yrs back.

Also it's a PITA to set VE Pro up 'multimbral' (multi-outputs) in Logic (do a search) while in Cubase it's a very simple matter. That said, numerous people use Logic, incl. people you've probably heard of.
I use VE Pro sometimes as if it's an FX rack, sending audio tracks to it and this is complicated in Logic, requiring 'Event Input' plug-in. I never did suss it.

OOOOK, I'll get informed about that!

[Ah_Dziz]

Yes, VSL needs a dongle. I bought a used copy with dongle included, and subsequently had my backpack stolen with the dongle in it, which is why my praise of VSL is more muted than others'. It's an incredible bunch of libraries, but you have to commit to having the hardware forever cause it can't be replaced.

It can, but it will cost you half of their current price for the library. And they stand firm on this, sob story notwithstanding. That said, I had VE Pro, Vienna Suite, and VI Pro 2 licenses that had not been used and they simply replaced these (their rep did the research on that, I had not brought it up and didn't even know. You get 3 for VE Pro and Vienna Suite.).
Same lost key as my Cubase 5 license and Steinberg replaced that (which I needed for the C9 activation) for free, though.

So far, half their current price for a library was notably less than half of what I paid.

You can and should insure your licenses. If I loose my USB hub I'll be reimbursed by my insurance company for the thousands of dollars worth of licenses on my Ilok, eLicenser, and Waves USB key. This stuff can be included on your homeowner's, renter's, or business' insurance. I haven't lost any licenses, but I had a dongle die once and they were friendly about getting me up and running again.

[jancivil]

Oh, and the Vienna Ensemble Pro vs not-Pro, the latter cannot deal in 3rd party instruments, is the difference.

THANK YOU your replies are very very in-depth and useful. Sorry I didn't got the meaning of "deal in 3rd party instruments".

The only instrument plugin it will load is VSL's. If I recall correctly it will load 'third party' FX, meaning from other vendors. (It's from old language used to identify <one of the parties to an agreement>; ie., there's you (party of the first part), them (a second part), but here's a 'third party', eg., a Native Instruments whatever.)
It didn't at first (except for Apple's which at least for me resided on the system. That may be because I had Development Tools installed then.).

[jancivil]

BTW, the Multitimbral setting up in Logic is not a really big deal, but if you've never done it's probably not apparent just looking at Logic, you may have to read the f**king manual. This is the case for any Multitimbral instrument.
Where the only time I've had to RTFM for Cubase was fairly exotic features. The Event Input is another thing, BUT only people needing to send audio tracks to it (not what it's primarily built to do at all) have to see this.