Low row idea - bow controller

[antcarrier]

Hello!

I have just ordered a LinnStrument and can't wait to play it

I have been reading through the manual a fair bit over the past few days and it looks like a really intuitive instrument. When looking over the low row section, I had an idea for a feature that as far as I know isn't in there currently.

I think it would be really cool if, in addition to the x, y, z data that can be sent from the low row, that another dimension - x axis speed - also be sent. Essentially fast L->R or R->L motion would send higher values (127), with very slow speeds sending a value near zero.

This would essentially enable the low row to be used as a 'bow' expression controller. You could then control your synths with multiple dimensions of typical bow behaviour - bow speed, bow pressure and two dimensions of bow position. The expressive possibilities would be insane, especially as you'd still have 5 dimensions left over for your playing hand I suppose it would enable a 'strum' mode equivalent for string players.


Now I have absolutely no idea how to code - but if anyone who does likes this idea and would find it useful - go nuts

Peace,

Jon

[Roger_Linn]

Hi Jon,

Thank you for buying a LinnStrument, as well as for your suggestion. The only problem is that I'm not aware of any bowed-string sound generator that would use that method of control. The only ones I'm aware of use the fast back-and-forth movements mod wheel (CC1) to simulate bowing.

Are you aware of any bowed-string sound generators that would respond to your suggested method of sending a control signal?

[acousmod]

Hi,

Perhaps that it could help : I have a plugin that extracts the speed movement of a controller and sends the value into another one.
There is a sensitivity and an inertia parameters that allow some interesting controls...

It is a VST, so you would have to place it just before an instrument plugin.
It is "CCSpeedFollower" by the end of this page :
http://acousmodules.free.fr/midi.htm

[antcarrier]

Hi Roger,

I do not know of any string libraries that are designed specifically with this type of control in mind. I suppose I was imagining a fairly generic control to assign as you please (for strings or any other sound), so hypothetically I would control something like expression or volume with it. The playing hand could then focus on performing vibrato rather than volume, which could then be determined by a combination of bow speed and pressure. I guess the downside would be that it wouldn't be plug and play, and would require a lot of adjustment within your VI to make it work.

I got the idea playing strings on my seaboard, and found that when playing vibrato, you push harder to perform the technique (as you do on a real stringed instrument to increase your grip on the string). This makes it difficult to do vibrato at low volumes without unintended volume modulation. If the low row could be configured as a bow, you would have smooth volume curves during vibrato, with the added benefit of audible changes in volume as you change bow direction, which would be great for detache etc.

Bowing strings would be great but perhaps this idea is an oversimplification of what is required to get there. Thanks acousmod! I will try this out when I get my Linnstrument and see if it works as well as I hope it might

I think it would also be just plain fun to bow in crazy synth parts too, and should be easier to configure in a synth because you're not specifically trying to emulate anything real.

Just a crazy idea anyhow - I obviously have no idea how much work is required to code these sorts of things

Roger, you mention some VIs that use the mod wheel to perform bow movements - which ones are these? I see you're a fan of sample modeling (which I also use), does SM do this? If this is the case, then if I set low row x axis to send cc1, low row z axis to bow pressure, and low row y axis to bow position, that may do the trick, for this VI.

Cheers!
Jon

[SneakyT]

There is this idea...
http://blog.leapmotion.com/playing-a-vi ... geco-midi/
Pretty cool idea for the leap. Not sure how it would translate to the Linnstrument but I'd be into it if it worked.

[48cube]

Hey, there is really cool and surprisingly playable Reaktor ensemble Serenade from physical modeling guru Chet Singer (Nord Modular heads should know him). It's nicely tweakable and it has exactly that bowing parameter. I tried to use it with low row but it was not responding to the whole width (used CC1). Strangely enough, when I used the same MIDI CC on Y axis, the whole range was used.

Still, this ensemble is worth checking. The best synthetic cello & Co. (no samples) I've heard so far.

Edit: Haha, I just opened the link from previous post too late
Yeah, +1 for Serenade.

[SneakyT]

I was about to say....
I do that all the time BTW

I haven't tried the plugin yet but it's on my list.

This may be off topic but I have really been wishing for a Logic X midi Fx plugins to remap and yet at the same time be able to adjust curves to midi cc's to be able to use more of the rows with the Linnstrument. It would also be nice to assign the the y or z axis' to multiple cc's. Something like this for Logic midi fx http://www.midiflow.com

Anyone know of such a plugin?

[48cube]

Sorry, perhaps not Mac related but for VST folks there is Piz Midi collection of plugins:
http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi
which does all thinkable trickery to MIDI events.

[Roger_Linn]

Roger, you mention some VIs that use the mod wheel to perform bow movements - which ones are these? I see you're a fan of sample modeling (which I also use), does SM do this? If this is the case, then if I set low row x axis to send cc1, low row z axis to bow pressure, and low row y axis to bow position, that may do the trick, for this VI.

Cheers!
Jon

I've seen videos on Sample Modeling's site demonstrating this ability, though I've never used it myself. I see it more as a kludge for use with standard MIDI keyboards because of the lack of good pressure sensing. But if you're interested in mimicking back and forth bowing, it could be interesting. Personally I prefer not having to bother with bowing technique, which seems necessary mostly when holding a note longer than one pass of the bow. I think Sample Modeling's bowed strings already alternate bow direction with each strike.

Regarding adding software features to LinnStrument, there's an FAQ on my FAQ page that explains my guiding principal for this. Search the page for "can you add this feature". Basically it says that I try to be careful not to pack in so many limited-use features that LinnStrument scares away non-techy musicians, but opened the source code for that purpose.

[antcarrier]

I've seen videos on Sample Modeling's site demonstrating this ability, though I've never used it myself. I see it more as a kludge for use with standard MIDI keyboards because of the lack of good pressure sensing. But if you're interested in mimicking back and forth bowing, it could be interesting. Personally I prefer not having to bother with bowing technique, which seems necessary mostly when holding a note longer than one pass of the bow. I think Sample Modeling's bowed strings already alternate bow direction with each strike.

Regarding adding software features to LinnStrument, there's an FAQ on my FAQ page that explains my guiding principal for this. Search the page for "can you add this feature". Basically it says that I try to be careful not to pack in so many limited-use features that LinnStrument scares away non-techy musicians, but opened the source code for that purpose.

Absolutely fair enough! My Linnstrument should arrive some time this week so I'll try this out amongst all sorts of other things!

[kerpiili]

I've been using low row (as well as a separate ribbon midi controller) to control bowing both in Sample Modeling's string instruments and in Chet Singer's Serenade. It works very well, but it certainly has a learning curve.

Here's a quick video with Sample Modeling's Violin: https://youtu.be/uwRH2iHo58w

In the first part I use low row for bowing and after that the separate ribbon controller (sitting on a shelf below the Linnstrument, so it can't be seen).
_

[antcarrier]

I've been using low row (as well as a separate ribbon midi controller) to control bowing both in Sample Modeling's string instruments and in Chet Singer's Serenade. It works very well, but it certainly has a learning curve.

Here's a quick video with Sample Modeling's Violin: https://youtu.be/uwRH2iHo58w

In the first part I use low row for bowing and after that the separate ribbon controller (sitting on a shelf below the Linnstrument, so it can't be seen).
_

That sounds fantastic! Much more realistic legato using that method
My Linnstrument arrived and I'm loving it, although I haven't had any luck getting the low row to do this yet, the main problem being that the x axis CC on the low row appears to be limited to 7 tiles. It looks like your bowing a fair bit further than that, did you enable the x axis to have a greater range than this? Was this done by editing the firmware code?

I downloaded the code to see if there was any line that appeared to control this parameter, in order to extend it over 25 tiles for a more realistic bowing range. But with my non-existent coding knowledge I couldn't find anything that stood out to tweak.

Roger, congratulations on your invention. It's by far the most expressive digital instrument I've played As a guitarist (primarily) I feel like this thing was made for me! The vibrato in particular is amazing, it feels like I am playing an acoustic instrument!

[Roger_Linn]

The 7-pad range and momentary action is because the Low Row's CC1 option is using the default Hold mode. You need to change it to Fader mode. This is explain in the Panel Settings page > Per-Split Settings Page, search for "Low Row".

Thank you for your kind compliment. May I quote you on my Owner Testimonials page?

[antcarrier]

The 7-pad range and momentary action is because the Low Row's CC1 option is using the default Hold mode. You need to change it to Fader mode. This is explain in the Panel Settings page > Per-Split Settings Page, search for "Low Row".

Thank you for your kind compliment. May I quote you on my Owner Testimonials page?

Of course you can, no worries

Brilliant, thanks! I guess I should have paid more attention when looking the manual, haha. I'm going to have fun with this

[kerpiili]

That sounds fantastic! Much more realistic legato using that method

Thanks! I have SM Violin usually set up so that the X and Z axes of the low row/ribbon controller are mapped to the Expression and Bow Pressure parameters, and Y axis of the regular note pads is mapped to Bow Position. Of course you could use low row to control all three parameters as well.

Also, when using low row for bowing, I use a strip of sticky tape (I think it's Scotch Magic Tape) on the whole low row to smooth out the surface and to lower friction. The width of the tape matches the row almost exactly. If you're going to try this, be sure to use tape that's easy to remove and won't leave residue on your Linnstrument.
_
Taneli