BW-Tron Beta Tests

[Yeager]

We've got a WINNY WINNER works in FLStudio !
Only weird thing right now is that the reverb stops immediately when I let go of the keys

Hello Yeager and all!


Yeager, you can try with the new version 0.6f I've just compiled a few minutes ago with the compilation option "Outputs as stereo pairs" set to true. Here is the new link:

http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_06f.zip

[WOK]

Only weird thing right now is that the reverb stops immediately when I let go of the keys

Yeah. Something must have gone wrong there. After releasing the last key (even a not playing one that is out of range of the sample) the reverb stops. Pressing another key gives strange envelope effects then.
Something must be wrong with the settings of the MIDI2CV or the arrangement of the containers (there should be a "voice combiner" after the last module that is voice dependend (like ADSR>VCA , behind the VCA) before the effects.)

[BlackWinny]

Hello everybody!

I'm currently wondering something, and I would like to have your opinions to you all who are interested by my BW-Tron. The question I'm wondering is:

Is really a chorus a good choice as effect on a Mellotron ?

I'm tempted to remove the chorus section to free up the space occupied in order to double the Reverberation section so that I could have a totally distinct reverb section for A and for B. It would be probably more useful (and more interesting) to have thus two independent and comprehensive Mellotron side by side, and that way I could provide six outputs:
-Output 6: Set B, Right channel
-Output 5: Set B, Left channel
-Output 4: Set A, Right channel
-Output 3: Set A, Left channel
-Output 2: The current mix of Set A and Set B, Right channel
-Output 1: The current mix of Set A and Set B, Left channel

Each Set would have its own reverb (meaning that the room used currently for the chorus would be now used for the reverb of the Set A).

And we forget the chorus for this plugin (I can of course release a chorus VST plugin later for those which will be interested).

I think that this solution would be way more clever than the current one (and it would not be a lot of modifications in the code), but I make this Mellotron for you all as well as for me. So your opinion counts for me.

It's not a poll, but I would be very very very happy to have your opinions.


Cheers to all !
Jacques

[evilantal]

I for one, wouldn't use the chorus.
But the separate reverb channels are an interesting idea

[BlackWinny]

Here is a comparison of both :

The version 0.6h with a common chorus and a common reverb...

... and the version 0.7a with a dedicated reverb for each set.


I let you all choose what seems to be the best. I must confess that I love way better the version having dedicated reverbs.

http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_06h.zip

http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_07a.zip


I'll follow the opinion of the majority.

[WOK]

I like the stereo widening of the chorus. Maybe the modulation could be a little stronger.
The idea with two reverbs and seperate outs isn't bad either. By increasing the vertical size of the GUI by 30% you could have knobs for chorus and reverb on both sides 

[Yeager]

Hi Winny,

just tested 07a in FLStudio and I got 3 stereo OUT, first I thought the pan was not working again, but I was wrong, I gave them all their own channel and everything is fine.
Reverb is working again as it should
I went for the double reverb version because I can always use my own chorus if I want to, which can also be said for the reverb, but I kind of like your reverb.
So for me an FX less version would also be OK now that I can sent A and B to their own channel in my DAW(s).
I think now is the time for you to label your knobs in the parameter list so I dont have to guess which knob is knob....

Here is a comparison of both :

The version 0.6h with a common chorus and a common reverb...

... and the version 0.7a with a dedicated reverb for each set.


I let you all choose what seems to be the best. I must confess that I love way better the version having dedicated reverbs.

http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_06h.zip

http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_07a.zip


I'll follow the opinion of the majority.

[BlackWinny]

I like the stereo widening of the chorus. Maybe the modulation could be a little stronger.
The idea with two reverbs and seperate outs isn't bad either. By increasing the vertical size of the GUI by 30% you could have knobs for chorus and reverb on both sides 

I have another idea... you will tell me what you think of it.

Why not a flip-flop panel between Reverb and Chorus ?

That way I would not change the vertical size of the plugin (which is already very high) and the use of the chorus would be as simple as now, with just a very small button in the corner to make the flip-flop between both sub-panels (like Night Flight on its effects section for example, but here limited to the reverb and chorus of course). The view by default would be the reverb of course (I think this goes without saying). And of course again... everything even the chorus remain MIDI "learnable".

Yes?


I suggest this alternative solution because on a laptop like mine we are close to the limit of height to let enough visibility to the DAW in background.


And to answer Yeager, yes the MIDI controls are to be named more clearly on the MIDI list. I had let this for the end, of course.

[WOK]

I have another idea... you will tell me what you think of it.
Why not a flip-flop panel between Reverb and Chorus ?
That way I would not change the vertical size of the plugin (which is already very high) and the use of the chorus would be as simple as now, with just a very small button in the corner to make the flip-flop between both sub-panels (like Night Flight on its effects section for example, but here limited to the reverb and chorus of course). The view by default would be the reverb of course (I think this goes without saying). And of course again... everything even the chorus remain MIDI "learnable".
I suggest this alternative solution because on a laptop like mine we are close to the limit of height to let enough visibility to the DAW in background.
And to answer Yeager, yes the MIDI controls are to be named more clearly on the MIDI list. I had let this for the end, of course.

Isn't a "small button" a contradiction to the idea of a GUI for visually impaired ? Maybe a small button for the GUI design switch and the big name button in the middle for a sub-menu? Or a smaller name plate and two buttons "Chorus"   "Reverb" beneath?
Hint: If you want to keep the idea with two reverbs, you would in any case need two chorus units, because they must be before the reverb.

[BlackWinny]

Hello everybody !

The version 0.8a of BW-Tron is now ready.

Here it is:

http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_08a.zip

On each side it now features a huge reverb and a huge chorus ! (Well I hope... You'll tell me... )

The sets A and B are now totally independent. It is like having two independent Mellotron in a unique plugin. The joint between both is made only by the Mix knob and the Volume knob. All that will allow either to use the plugin as a double Mellotron (using the independent outputs of Set A and Set B) either to use it to mix the two sounds (using the common output) to make psychedelic timbres and save uncommon presets with your DAWs. There are now 6 outputs : the common stereo A+B but also a stereo output for the set A and a stereo output for the set B.

To display the Chorus or the Reverb of a set you simply click the title of the currently seen effect. This solution seems to me very elegant because it doesn't alter at all the beauty of the GUI.

I have also added a soft knee limiter (static, without any MIDI control) to limit the outputs to 0 dB so that there will never be any excessive audio output. I've always fought against the loudness war.


Now, it is your turn to try this new version, and if it is now OK I shall be ready to release publicly this version as the 1.0. I'll write also a short PDF file as help to explain a bit the content of this plugin and how its GUI works.


It's up to you to test it, friends !
Jacques

[WOK]

Nice.
Just had a quick try. One thing I found: the PAN is after the reverb, so the reverb is panned too, which is not very natural. You should only PAN the dry signal that goes to the main outs and then mix with the reverb signal (or PAN before the stereo input of the reverb and use it's dry/wet option)
Did you change something of the chorus values? I think before it did not sound so much flanging?
I think the WET knob could have a lower max value, as 100% WET reverb may not be necessary, and so we get finer adjustment of the reverb mix.

[BlackWinny]

Hello Wolfgang

When I put the Pan before the effects, its panning effect disappears totally in the reverb. I can't understand why... but UD-Reverb cancels totally the pan when it is at its max value (but maybe precisely because I put it too high).

For the wet knob of the reverb I can make a try with 50% of the value...

And I shortened a bit the predelays of the chorus, yes.



Here is a new version (0.8b) where:

• I have put back the original values of the predelays of the Chorus and as you will see (or hear) the chorus effect becomes rather weak in comparison. But perhaps that it is only a non objective impression from me;
• I have put a lower max value to the Reverb;
• I have put back the Pan to its original position between the VCA and the effects, because yes with a low reverb the Pan remains discernible. Probably that it is me who puts the reverb too high... I love so much the sounds of the caverns (and it's true).

Here is the new version:

• http://hsjp.eu/mao/BW-Tron/BW-Tron_08b.zip

[WOK]

Hello Wolfgang
When I put the Pan before the effects, its panning effect disappears totally in the reverb. I can't understand why... but UD-Reverb cancels totally the pan when it is at its max value (but maybe precisely because I put it too high).

Works fine here with udreverb 1.3.5
The reverb doesn't change while panning, because the reverb is calculated from the sum of the inputs, but the dry part follows the pan.

Or this way when using the reverb as a send effect:

[WOK]

I have put back the original values of the predelays of the Chorus and as you will see (or hear) the chorus effect becomes rather weak in comparison. But perhaps that it is only a non objective impression from me

This gives good results for me:

Chorus depth depends on pitch and mod depth (which interact - too much of either one sounds too much detuned).
Pre delay only changes the sound of the feedback (which sounds better at minus values).
The difference between the mod phases results in the stereo effect (0/0 is the same as 0/10, 0/5 , 1/6 etc. is the max)
Chorus ouput is only the modulated signal and should be mixed with the dry one.

[BlackWinny]

Hello Wolfgang

In the version 0.8b of last night, the reverb is the UD-Reverb 1.3.5 and cabled exactly as in your schema:

Even the values are the same.

For the chorus I have:

1. In CK_Chorus_Driver2 these values :
   • Pitch : [-5 ; -2]
   • Waveform1 : Sine
   • Waveform2 : Sine
   • Phase1 : +2
   • Phase2 : +7
   • PitchModeAccuracy : High
   • Pitch Volt Mode : Oct
2. In CK_2V_Chorus2 these values :
   • Pre_Dly1 : +10 ms
   • Pre_Dly1 : +40 ms
   • Mode_Depth : [0 ; +2]
   • FBK : [0 ; +5]
   • Max Pre Delay : 0.500 s
   • FBK Mode : Chorus
   • MIDI_to_CV:Mono Mode: On

So yes, these values are very different from yours... I have the excuse that it is my first public plugin... So... I'm learning.


I'm going to reproduce your cabling and to use your values, to see...

A question: why new VCAs after the effects ?