How do I manage to internalize foundation for chords, scales, hamonies and voicing.

[ayumilovexd]

My teacher told me when I'm learning a piece I have to understand the underlying harmony, only then I would be able to learn and play it easily, he also told me to never learn the notes itself (because every note is part of a chord or harmonizing with a chord I could only imagine) , instead figure out the harmony then play it over and over again until you internalize it, then play the actual notes that the composer written and see how they take a chord progression make it into a song

I really like this idea because it allows you to learn the piece quicker and you won't get bored of the song by the time you finish learning the whole piece.

My goal is to be able to recognize harmonies quickly, for example, these and knowing them by Nashville Number System so it'll make transcribing and communication easier)

What notes are in chord Dm?

What's it's V/V or iv/V chord

What's the relative Major key of A major

What's Am first inversion?

If I want to modulate from C major to the V/V chord what do I do?

Do you guys know what I'm talking about? (I don't think there are enough examples for all the general situations but I hope you understand what I'm after).

Some pieces' harmony are crazy, sometimes when composers are really feeling it, they tend to harmonize the chord progressions with chords in the relative key, the minor key.

Some composers even use the degree of the scale as chords like The IV of V, The V of V. they add seventh chords in order to modulate to a different key, you'd dread this process if you haven't internalized the scale and chords because you'd be taking hours and hours just figuring out the chords, even if you got the chords, without the internalization, you wouldn't be able to understand it fully.

so in order to be able to identify these harmonies fast, I have to basically internalize all the scales, (most of the) chords, their chord degree, and obviously knowing what the chord progression sound like

It's daunting and I don't even know how to start internalizing
at first, I tried to memorize the chords right?

Cmaj C E G
Dmaj D F A

but then I have to be able to immediately know their inversions and Nashville Number System

so Cmaj 1,3,5 C,E,G plus inversions.
it's not easy for me to be able to switch them around and to be able to know them as their inversions so it looks like I have to internalize each and every inversion.

I believe that internalizing these foundational pieces could turn people in true musicians, people should be taking as little time as reading and understanding tbh, any time wasted on figuring out the harmony is wasted....

Okay maybe not that fast but if your taking time to go through inversions or scale notes or using a reference, it's mostly waste of time


I'm seeking for advice and efficiency and I need your help to be able to achieve this as I know some people might have gone through this. I know that taking time to learn this entire system could lead to too many trials and error

Thanks for reading my post

[jancivil]

My goal is to be able to recognize harmonies quickly, for example, these and knowing them by Nashville Number System so it'll make transcribing and communication easier)

I suppose writing (or reading) '3 minor' instead of 'iii' is considered easier by somebody.

Here's the thing. Some harmonies, a fair amount I'd say (with some caveats as to 'pop music'? whatev), do not occur in root position. Unless you're just not into a deeper understanding of "harmony", you may learn to appreciate the usual system in place, as provides an understanding of voice-leading by giving the 'inversions' as positions relative to the bass (known as figuring the bass).
And this is superior in that you are afforded the voice-leading, ie., the musical reasoning behind (typical, classic) decisions.

EG: I6/4 (2nd inversion) to V5/3 (root position). The fifth of I {of the key}, G to the root of V, G, same bass.
Same bass while the other parts do (in C): C E to B D. 4th and 6th per the bass to 3rd and 5th per the bass. So the whole practice of part-writing is afforded us, is evident herein as <figured bass>.

[...] never learn the notes itself (because every note is part of a chord or harmonizing with a chord I could only imagine)

Ah, no. You're putting on shoes there that will be too tight to walk in.

So, it's perhaps time to look at some extant music, composed by masters. You'll find a fair amount of instances of notes that, even on a strong beat, are non-chordal or do not harmonize particularly with the underlying chord, and that one should not try to justify as part of that or the next chord. You see, music wasn't always about chords as a block, it was a stream of parts rather more independent than all this.

So you'll find, EG: notes that sustain over (or under) several harmonies where the other parts are 'dissonant', then they aren't, or a new interest is located...
For instance a *pedal* tone, the same note in the bass; let's go with the tonic note while we change harmonies.
1 of the key, root of I, is the 7th of II, 7 in the bass;
it's not even part of iii but you could say forms a new chord (which we'd call I7 if we must);
it's the fifth of IV;
it's not even part of V;
it's the third of vi;
it's not even part of viiº.
So in a couple of cases here it's pretty tense! What to do? It depends. What will the composer's thought have been in such a case, do you think?

If I want to modulate from C major to the V/V chord what do I do?

Well, ya don't, really. If you want to modulate from C to D, the idea now of D is that D is I.
You'll be the most convinced in simplest terms by V of D [A] to D. But, what's_the_tune? What's the point of this modulation? In reality, in the world. It seems an empty exercise after a point. But, you know, you'll see it soon enough here, C has an A-based harmony, happens to be minor. vi. It's an easy matter to make it major, change C to C#. But what's the flow? By itself, it isn't a musical consideration. In a flow of harmonies, what is your idea? Is that abrupt? Is abrupt a good or a bad thing.

So at this stage you are isolating harmonies from any context. By itself 'never learn the notes itself' may lead you astray.

[jancivil]

I'm seeking for advice and efficiency and I need your help to be able to achieve this as I know some people might have gone through this. I know that taking time to learn this entire system could lead to too many trials and error

You appear to be saying you're in a hurry and want certainty which will afford you less of cluelessly trying stuff out.

When I learned harmony in the usual system, which is typically conveyed as 4-part writing figuring the bass; with principles (even rules) which are guaranteed to provide a certain clarity, tried and true Common Practice Period practices, I was at the same time learning pieces on my instrument which comported with that (as well as pieces of a later period which did exceed that).
I should say that I'd been a musician for a few years prior to this. But, I knew I did not grasp JS Bach and I really wanted to. These principles seem to have been gleaned from that practice so that ultimately worked as per that goal.

I was really good at part-writing it turns out. So my fancy of myself as I started out, 'I could well become a composer', was borne out in part now. Again, I had done *trial and error* for a few years before I had any taste of this. I did not try to write classical music, of course.

The principles of received CPP harmony in themselves, absent experience in that music? Donno. One should learn principles of music in the context of some music, I'd say.

So, we don't know what music you want to do. Modulation, you mention. Well, what happened in some music that made you want to suss that? So other than a couple of remarks, who knows what's going on in your lessons.

I internalized this as a matter of course, involving experience with music (including a lot of transcribing from a standpoint of knowing little or nothing. I learned the practices of Beatles or Eric Clapton from going over and over the records and finding the notes on my guitar) but I have a high aptitude for this.

[ayumilovexd]

Okay guys, I'm going to give an example
check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65zrLQhWotw

0:50 he could immediately identify that the
F-7 is the vi chord (Because F is the 6th scale degree)
Bb-7 is the ii chord
Eb7 is the V
Abmaj7 is the I chord
in the key of Ab

I'm assuming if he had lead sheets in all 12 major scale he could know which each chord are which in relation with the keys

He says that he made a chart for this but like I said if your taking time to look back and fourth on the chart, it's wasting time and that's just identifying it what do you think is better? besides does he need to even think or refer to the chord chart? This is what I mean by Internalizing

continuing on the video he explains that the diatonic chords are chords that fits in the key but sometimes the chords break out and become chromatic harmony so basically I have to be comfortable in any key and be able to know what the composer did
like did he change keys from Ab to relative minor or does he treat V chord as one?

At 3:21 he knows immediately that G7 is not part of Ab
so he treats the G7 as V cause he want to modulate into C

4:42 he is able to tell that it's the exact chord progressions because he is familiarized with all these keys

watch till 6:02 so you see how effective this is by understanding the harmonies, want to internalize the scale, harmonies etc

[jancivil]

We know from 'internalize' already. Nobody on the internet has a magic wand to get you there overnight. It takes the time and the work to do it, sorry.

"I have to be comfortable in any key" - so you work in every key. You move around the room enough times and you know where all the furniture is. What more can one say to that?

"does he need to even think..." a jazz guy, no, apparently it's *internalized*. It has to be. That type of harmonic thought, any chord on a strong beat might be approached by a dominant to it as if it's I. Outside of the real I, it's a temporary diversion.

AGAIN, get some experience with the music you want to grasp. Jazz people done did all kind of exercises in every key. ii7-V7-I to 12 places. ii7-V7 b5 substitute (bII7 b5) to 12 places. Scales and alterted scales that suit all that shit, in all keys. & cet. And then there's devices to keep going around in circles. Your I is minor? What, it's a ii now.
(The jazz that works in diatonic contexts was originally based all in Show Tunes and popular songs. The chords were originally there to support a tune. Then the impetus became chromaticizing harmony, but really to create stronger movement; chromatic equals color, more of the circle of fifths = more color = more movement. A key feature always was what kind of musical line does that promote. So you'd take the skeleton of what Bird did and make a new tune. I tried to convey, you know. Don't isolate harmony from music.)

[Brittlestem]

Okay guys, I'm going to give an example
check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65zrLQhWotw

0:50 he could immediately identify that the
F-7 is the vi chord (Because F is the 6th scale degree)
Bb-7 is the ii chord
Eb7 is the V
Abmaj7 is the I chord
in the key of Ab

I'm assuming if he had lead sheets in all 12 major scale he could know which each chord are which in relation with the keys

He says that he made a chart for this but like I said if your taking time to look back and fourth on the chart, it's wasting time and that's just identifying it what do you think is better? besides does he need to even think or refer to the chord chart? This is what I mean by Internalizing

continuing on the video he explains that the diatonic chords are chords that fits in the key but sometimes the chords break out and become chromatic harmony so basically I have to be comfortable in any key and be able to know what the composer did
like did he change keys from Ab to relative minor or does he treat V chord as one?

At 3:21 he knows immediately that G7 is not part of Ab
so he treats the G7 as V cause he want to modulate into C

4:42 he is able to tell that it's the exact chord progressions because he is familiarized with all these keys

watch till 6:02 so you see how effective this is by understanding the harmonies, want to internalize the scale, harmonies etc

Using a chart is *how* you get better, it's how you internalize, it's the baby steps that will, eventually, get you to where he is.

And, using the babys steps analogy, if you start off learning, for example, the 5th degree of each and every scale you'll then be able to much more easily work out what the 6th, 3rd is etc.
This, obviously in conjunction with studying/internalizing the flats/sharps in each key, is where I'd start.

So if you know it's Ab maj so go through the wheel on the chart and eventually in your head, to find out how many flats there are in the scale = fbeA
4 flats (BEAD) and you know the 5th is E as it's always the preceding letter in the mnemonic (bEadgcf)
"Internalizing" is just doing the above but very, very fast - and the only way to get there is by repeating ad nauseum.