KVR Audio

zenophilix · Post by **zenophilix** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:03 pm

So, this is a problem that's been a huge PITA since I bought Serum last month.

Running it on Live 7, my CPU gets eaten up like crazy. I figured this was just something I'd have to live with, which bothered me since I'm using a 3.5GHz 6-core CPU... So, just out of curiosity, I tried it in Live 9 Lite, which is basically my only 64-bit DAW.(I also have Cubase LE installed, but I'm still learning the ins and outs of that.) It ran significantly better. I tried playing 4 notes of a sawtooth wave with 16x unison as a test, and there was a 20-30% difference in CPU usage with nothing else loaded into the project.

I'm guessing this has something to do with the bridging that takes place when I'm using a 32-bit daw, but is there anything I can do to cut down on the CPU drain? Sometimes 8 tracks isn't enough.

SampleScience · Post by **SampleScience** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:59 pm

Is Serum 32 bit itself in your setup? If not, that's definitely the bridging that is causing the problem. Bridging from 64 bit to 32 bit is unstable for most plugins, in rare cases it will work fine.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:05 pm

zenophilix wrote: I'm guessing this has something to do with the bridging that takes place when I'm using a 32-bit daw

Most DAW's don't have a 64-bit bridge, only a 32-bit bridge... (Reaper is the only one i know that actually has both a 32- and a 64-bit bridge) Are you using Serum 32-bit in a 32-bit, or a 64-bit DAW?

izonin · Post by **izonin** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:14 pm

You can always freeze tracks in Ableton...

sfxsound3 · Post by **sfxsound3** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:16 pm

So you have Live 7 32-bit but not Live 7 64-bit. Is it sold separately or what?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:19 pm

Mh, i just read the OP again, and i think i get it now. It takes more CPU when using 32-bit Serum in a 32-bit DAW, than it takes in Ableton Live Lite 64-bit, when the 32-bit plugin is bridged (the way i understand it). Well, that's weird. Even though i also found that Largo 32-bit takes more CPU than Largo 64-bit in a 64-bit DAW. But, why don't you just use Live 7 64-bit?

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:22 pm

There is no Live 7 64 bit if I'm not mistaken. 8 had a 64bit version after a while.
Plus, live doesn't have a bitbridge.

Zexila · Post by **Zexila** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:28 pm

chk071 wrote:Mh, i just read the OP again, and i think i get it now. It takes more CPU when using 32-bit Serum in a 32-bit DAW, than it takes in Ableton Live Lite 64-bit, when the 32-bit plugin is bridged (the way i understand it).

There's no internal bridge in Live, he's using totally different versions of Live in this comparison and he should actually try Live 9 32 bit to have a fair test.

Have a feeling Live 7 is main culprit here, unsupported/untested by most current developers.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:46 pm

Then i have no idea how he's running the 32-bit Serum in Ableton Lite 64-bit. But maybe i also misunderstood that, and he's not doing that at all.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:45 pm

zenophilix wrote:I'm guessing this has something to do with the bridging that takes place when I'm using a 32-bit daw, but is there anything I can do to cut down on the CPU drain? Sometimes 8 tracks isn't enough.

How much RAM do you have on your system? 32 bit means a plug is limited to using 4GB of it, so if you got 16GB that would be like driving at full speed with the brakes on.

zenophilix · Post by **zenophilix** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:02 pm

SampleScience wrote:Is Serum 32 bit itself in your setup? If not, that's definitely the bridging that is causing the problem. Bridging from 64 bit to 32 bit is unstable for most plugins, in rare cases it will work fine.

Serum 32 bit is in my setup. I don't have a way of bridging plugins, atleast not yet.

chk071 wrote:
zenophilix wrote: I'm guessing this has something to do with the bridging that takes place when I'm using a 32-bit daw
Most DAW's don't have a 64-bit bridge, only a 32-bit bridge... (Reaper is the only one i know that actually has both a 32- and a 64-bit bridge) Are you using Serum 32-bit in a 32-bit, or a 64-bit DAW?

I'm using Serum 32 bit in a 32 bit DAW on 64 bit Windows.

izonin wrote:You can always freeze tracks in Ableton...

I can freeze tracks, but my CPU usage goes through the roof just trying to program one patch.

sfxsound3 wrote:So you have Live 7 32-bit but not Live 7 64-bit. Is it sold separately or what?

Version 8 was the first one to have 64-bit support, and upgrading is going to take a while for reasons that I won't bother getting into.

chk071 wrote:Mh, i just read the OP again, and i think i get it now. It takes more CPU when using 32-bit Serum in a 32-bit DAW, than it takes in Ableton Live Lite 64-bit, when the 32-bit plugin is bridged (the way i understand it). Well, that's weird. Even though i also found that Largo 32-bit takes more CPU than Largo 64-bit in a 64-bit DAW. But, why don't you just use Live 7 64-bit?

Almost. If I use the 64-bit version of Serum in a 64-bit DAW, it runs just fine, which it should, considering I'm running a 6-core CPU. If I run the 32-bit version of Serum in a 32-bit DAW, the CPU usage is insane. I don't have any bridging going on. And, as for Live 7 64-bit, I'd use it if it existed.

chk071 wrote:Then i have no idea how he's running the 32-bit Serum in Ableton Lite 64-bit. But maybe i also misunderstood that, and he's not doing that at all.

I'm not running 32-bit serum in Lite. 32-bit is running under 32-bit, 64-bit is running under 64-bit.

Numanoid wrote:
zenophilix wrote:I'm guessing this has something to do with the bridging that takes place when I'm using a 32-bit daw, but is there anything I can do to cut down on the CPU drain? Sometimes 8 tracks isn't enough.
How much RAM do you have on your system? 32 bit means a plug is limited to using 4GB of it, so if you got 16GB that would be like driving at full speed with the brakes on.

I have 8GB currently.

Synthmaster, Hybrid, Loom all work fine in both 32-bit and 64-bit, and I only have this problem with Serum(x86).

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:10 pm

zenophilix wrote:I have 8GB currently.

Synthmaster, Hybrid, Loom all work fine in both 32-bit and 64-bit, and I only have this problem with Serum(x86).

I think Serum is more CPU intensive than those plugs?

The one negative comment MusicRadar had in its rave review of Serum is that it can hit the CPU hard

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... rum-613138

zenophilix · Post by **zenophilix** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:34 pm

Numanoid wrote:
zenophilix wrote:I have 8GB currently.

Synthmaster, Hybrid, Loom all work fine in both 32-bit and 64-bit, and I only have this problem with Serum(x86).
I think Serum is more CPU intensive than those plugs?

The one negative comment MusicRadar had in its rave review of Serum is that it can hit the CPU hard

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech/ ... rum-613138

Yeah, but my CPU can handle it just fine. When I'm in 64-bit Live, I've never encountered a patch that sends the CPU usage even close to 100%. As far as I know, 32-bit doesn't limit CPU, only RAM, so I'm confused as to why there's such a massive difference.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:37 pm

I thought access to more RAM helped take strain off the CPU

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:43 pm

Nope, that's not how it works.

Serum 32 bit uses WAY more CPU than 64 bit