AudioThing Outer Space - Tape Echo - NEW v2.0

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Dozius wrote:One thing I think would be a nice addition would be a way to change the 'slew rate' when changing the delay time. Currently I find the delay time changes way too fast, especially when increasing the delay time which seems to happen instantaneously (bug?). I know I could chain up some parameter automation to do this externally, but it would be nice to have it on board.

Another thing I found is the reverb is way darker than I remember from the space echos I've played around with. Granted, it's been a long time. Not really a show stopper, just curious why it is like this. Is it something that varies wildly between units?
Yes I think it's a difference such as between units. Carlo's RE-201 is actually one of the cleanest I've heard.

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Dozius wrote:One thing I think would be a nice addition would be a way to change the 'slew rate' when changing the delay time. Currently I find the delay time changes way too fast, especially when increasing the delay time which seems to happen instantaneously (bug?). I know I could chain up some parameter automation to do this externally, but it would be nice to have it on board.

Another thing I found is the reverb is way darker than I remember from the space echos I've played around with. Granted, it's been a long time. Not really a show stopper, just curious why it is like this. Is it something that varies wildly between units?
Can't remember the right measurements I took from my unit but I think it was around 1.5 sec. So, no, it doesn't change instantaneously, otherwise you wouldn't be able to hear the doppler effect. Try this, use a simple sine or very basic waveform, set intensity to 0, and play with the repeat rate. You'll hear the pitched down/up waveform reach the actual pitch in 1-2 sec.
That being said, it would be nice to add the "slew rate" in the future rear panel. I'll think about it.

Regarding the reverb, some say it's darker, some say it's brighter, some say it's too dirty/ringy, some say it's too clean :D I guess it depends on many many factors considering some units are more than 40 years old.
I'll try to get my hands on another unit just to compare, but what I wanted to do is a close emulation to my unit which was serviced and restored to a close to new state. If you look at the pictures on the product page, you'll see that the panel is quite clean so I guess the previous owner(s) took good care of it.

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:love:

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audiothing wrote: Can't remember the right measurements I took from my unit but I think it was around 1.5 sec. So, no, it doesn't change instantaneously, otherwise you wouldn't be able to hear the doppler effect. Try this, use a simple sine or very basic waveform, set intensity to 0, and play with the repeat rate. You'll hear the pitched down/up waveform reach the actual pitch in 1-2 sec.
That being said, it would be nice to add the "slew rate" in the future rear panel. I'll think about it.
I must be experiencing a bug then because I get weird results. I made some recordings of each head, as they act differently. Basically all I am doing is playing a short sine with intensity up a bit so you can hear the ramp up/down in delay time. Each clip starts at max delay time, switching to min delay time. Then playing another note and switching from min back to max. These are hard transitions, as in I am stepping directly from max to min and back to max.

edit: Just for clarity, it's the transition from min to max in head 2 and 3 that sounds way off to me. i.e. the second transition in the clips.

Am I totally out to lunch here?

Head 1: https://clyp.it/ks4oca5f
Head 2: https://clyp.it/04wmszjq
Head 3: https://clyp.it/tajkwbvm
audiothing wrote: Regarding the reverb, some say it's darker, some say it's brighter, some say it's too dirty/ringy, some say it's too clean :D I guess it depends on many many factors considering some units are more than 40 years old.
I'll try to get my hands on another unit just to compare, but what I wanted to do is a close emulation to my unit which was serviced and restored to a close to new state. If you look at the pictures on the product page, you'll see that the panel is quite clean so I guess the previous owner(s) took good care of it.
Thanks for the info. I had a suspicion this was the case. :wink:
Last edited by Dozius on Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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oops!

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Dozius wrote:I must be experiencing a bug then because I get weird results. I made some recordings of each head, as they act differently. Basically all I am doing is playing a short sine with intensity up a bit so you can hear the ramp up/down in delay time. Each clip starts at max delay time, switching to min delay time. Then playing another note and switching from min back to max. These are hard transitions, as in I am stepping directly from max to min and back to max.

edit: Just for clarity, it's the transition from min to max in head 2 and 3 that sounds way off to me. i.e. the second transition in the clips.

Am I totally out to lunch here?

Head 1: https://clyp.it/ks4oca5f
Head 2: https://clyp.it/04wmszjq
Head 3: https://clyp.it/tajkwbvm
For some reason I can't play clyp.it stuff on my main computer. I had to listen with another laptop but honestly can't really say there's a bug. First thing to consider is that each head has a different range and the "smoothing"/ballistic time it's the same on each one (because it's actually an emulation of the tape speed change).
Head 2 and 3 will have longer delays compared to head 1, so more space between repetition might result in less doppler effect on a very short sound.
Try a sustained/long sound (maybe switch to Wet Only if you don't want to hear a mess :)) and you'll see what I mean.
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audiothing wrote:Try a sustained/long sound (maybe switch to Wet Only if you don't want to hear a mess :)) and you'll see what I mean.
Yes, this is the right setup. I can plainly hear the ramping and it's perfect for spectral analysis as well. I did two measurements. One with a step change and one with a linear ramp of 1 second.

There is an large discontinuity in the response with the step change. The tape speed is ramping after the change, but shouldn't that initial large jump be smoothed out a little too? I would think something like the ramp output but not nearly as drastically smoothed out.

Sorry, I know I am being a pest. I hope this is at least interesting discussion. :D
head3-step.jpg
head3-1sec-ramp.jpg
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Dozius wrote:
audiothing wrote:Try a sustained/long sound (maybe switch to Wet Only if you don't want to hear a mess :)) and you'll see what I mean.
Yes, this is the right setup. I can plainly hear the ramping and it's perfect for spectral analysis as well. I did two measurements. One with a step change and one with a linear ramp of 1 second.

There is an large discontinuity in the response with the step change. The tape speed is ramping after the change, but shouldn't that initial large jump be smoothed out a little too? I would think something like the ramp output but not nearly as drastically smoothed out.

Sorry, I know I am being a pest. I hope this is at least interesting discussion. :D
No need to be sorry :) it's indeed interesting and can also help improve the quality of Outer Space, so, why not?
Ok, so I didn't actually consider such a step change, I don't think it's "natural" (how fast can you turn a knob?). On the actual unit you can't really go from 0% to 100% in just one step. That's what probably causing this discontinuity. I might be able to smooth such steep changes, but I don't want to interfere with the "normal" behaviour. I'll do a couple of tests, and see if I can cover these cases.
But anyway, I would really suggest to use a manually smoothed curve, I guess at least a hundred ms should be enough. Better yet, control the Repeat Rate with an external knob to get a close to real feeling. :)
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Just bought this. It sounds very good. But I don't seem to be able to get the wet only function to work, and therefore cannot use it as a send effect. Flicking the Wet Only function between off and on seems to make no difference.
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audiothing wrote:No need to be sorry :) it's indeed interesting and can also help improve the quality of Outer Space, so, why not?
Ok, so I didn't actually consider such a step change, I don't think it's "natural" (how fast can you turn a knob?). On the actual unit you can't really go from 0% to 100% in just one step. That's what probably causing this discontinuity. I might be able to smooth such steep changes, but I don't want to interfere with the "normal" behaviour. I'll do a couple of tests, and see if I can cover these cases.
But anyway, I would really suggest to use a manually smoothed curve, I guess at least a hundred ms should be enough. Better yet, control the Repeat Rate with an external knob to get a close to real feeling. :)
Yes, this is definitely an edge case. Thanks for taking a look! Let me know how it turns out. In the mean time I will stick to more "human" knob movements. :P

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chis wrote:Just bought this. It sounds very good. But I don't seem to be able to get the wet only function to work, and therefore cannot use it as a send effect. Flicking the Wet Only function between off and on seems to make no difference.
Hmm, it works here. Maybe, if the delay time is too short you might not hear a huge difference. Try the Reverb Only mode and check if it works there, or try one of the Mode with Head 3 and use a high Repeat Rate value.
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Dozius wrote:Yes, this is definitely an edge case. Thanks for taking a look! Let me know how it turns out. In the mean time I will stick to more "human" knob movements. :P
No problem, actually after doing more tests I think it's enough smoothed even on a very steep change. But I'll test a couple of other options just to be sure.
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Small Feature Request :)..
Because mode #11 is the only one that uses all three heads (which means that the Reverb is also active), could you make it such that, if Reverb level is set all the way down to zero, it is then effectively "off" (to save CPU) ?
Really delighted with the plugin :).
I did get a life,once...but it was faulty, so I sent it back.

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Last edited by Vortifex on Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vic_france wrote:Small Feature Request :)..
Because mode #11 is the only one that uses all three heads (which means that the Reverb is also active), could you make it such that, if Reverb level is set all the way down to zero, it is then effectively "off" (to save CPU) ?
Really delighted with the plugin :).
Absolutely, makes sense, if it doesn't introduce issues I'll add it to all Reverb modes.
Vortifex wrote:Played with the demo for 5 minutes and purchased - what a great plugin. Instant smile on my face.
Thank you :)

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Anyway, I've found a nasty bug introduced in the new update, on some hosts the delay section is not rendering when bouncing offline. Fix is coming soon.
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