First of i have to say i'm really in love with bitwig 2.0 and all the modulation options, inspiriational workflow and stability (+ many other advantages) but there is still this big issue i have with it: timestretch.
As a daw which got many close ties to live i can't understand why the timestretch is not better in bws.
For me live got it almost perfect with the hit/start/end-points and algorithms for mostly every situation.
In bws it's mostly impossible to stretch complex material like old records. It just sounds bad.
Also pitchshifting doesn't sound good as it uses the same algorithm i guess. The new pitch-shift-device doesn't help much either as it just sounds horrible in most situations.
So please bitwig-team,improve the timestrech workflow and quality. It would make bws so much better for me and many others.
Yes, we can work arround the issues with other vsts and daw's but it breaks the workflow and i hope thats not the final solution.
On a sidenote, why do i allways have to cut the events in the arrangement window and cant click and drag the beginning of an event anymore. I liked the bws 1 behavior much more.
Other than that, bws fuels my creativity every day and i'm very thankful for that.
cheers
Latest News: Bitwig updates Bitwig Studio to v5.1
timestretch again...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 80 posts since 24 Mar, 2017
Last edited by escapednb on Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 4633 posts since 21 Jan, 2008 from oO
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 80 posts since 24 Mar, 2017
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- KVRer
- 29 posts since 12 Apr, 2011
At least when browsing audio for a session sometimes the browser stretching sounds choppy or weird. Which isn't ideal if you are auditioning material to use. Many times placing the audio into the project and changing to Stretch HD solves the problem but why is the "worst" strech mode the default when browsing. Wish we could at least choose which one it would default to. Not very workflow friendly
www.facebook.com/danielrodriguesstudios - Mixing / Beats
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- Banned
- 5357 posts since 7 May, 2015
The browser is AWFUL currently. What I mean is that not only doesn't it detect tempo correctly a good part of the time, the time stretch for it is insanely bad.
This changes when you drag/drop a loop.
C'mon wigs, let's get this done!
This changes when you drag/drop a loop.
C'mon wigs, let's get this done!
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- KVRian
- 1107 posts since 30 Jun, 2015
If bitwig says timestrech is fine then its fine ... lol yeah agree with op
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- KVRist
- 421 posts since 11 Dec, 2002 from Los Angeles
My understanding is that most apps (including Ableton) license Elastique Pro for their timestretching technology, but the Elastique Pro SKD is in a C-variant language while Bitwig was written with a Java backend. So this is why Bitwig lags behind everyone else in this arena. I'm pretty sure the first part of that statement is true, but I'm unsore about the second part. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I'm with you, though. We should all write to Bitwig support asking for better time stretch.
I'm with you, though. We should all write to Bitwig support asking for better time stretch.
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- KVRian
- 985 posts since 10 Sep, 2014
No. Only the gui uses Java. They don't want to use thirdparty code so they have more control and avoid bugs that are out of their control.brownerthanu wrote:My understanding is that most apps (including Ableton) license Elastique Pro for their timestretching technology, but the Elastique Pro SKD is in a C-variant language while Bitwig was written with a Java backend. So this is why Bitwig lags behind everyone else in this arena. I'm pretty sure the first part of that statement is true, but I'm unsore about the second part. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I'm with you, though. We should all write to Bitwig support asking for better time stretch.
I agree. As is the timestretch is bad at the moment.
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- KVRian
- 777 posts since 17 Nov, 2015 from Yuma
my understanding is that i read this excellent basic knowledge about bitwig thread here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=450443brownerthanu wrote:My understanding is that most apps (including Ableton) license Elastique Pro for their timestretching technology, but the Elastique Pro SKD is in a C-variant language while Bitwig was written with a Java backend. So this is why Bitwig lags behind everyone else in this arena. I'm pretty sure the first part of that statement is true, but I'm unsore about the second part. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I'm with you, though. We should all write to Bitwig support asking for better time stretch.
before talking about java frontend/backend stuff and bitwigs audio engine further on or ranting about java itself.
[aˈtoːm] [aːl] [ˈa(ː)tonaːl] III + II
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https://soundcloud.com/atonalatomiceel https://soundcloud.com/user-628555238
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- KVRist
- 421 posts since 11 Dec, 2002 from Los Angeles
Ah awesome! Thanks for clearing that up for me.stamp wrote: No. Only the gui uses Java. They don't want to use thirdparty code so they have more control and avoid bugs that are out of their control.
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- KVRist
- 421 posts since 11 Dec, 2002 from Los Angeles
I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or helpful, but thanks. It was under my nose the whole time.anttimaatteri wrote:my understanding is that i read this excellent basic knowledge about bitwig thread here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&t=450443
before talking about java frontend/backend stuff and bitwigs audio engine further on or ranting about java itself.
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- KVRist
- 265 posts since 25 Jan, 2016 from in my DAW
Yes, stretching sounds still very bad. Sadly this isn't even in the ballpark of today's standard.
Would it be an option to integrate Melodyne/VST3/ARA for stretching/pitching purposes (cf. Studio One).
Would it be an option to integrate Melodyne/VST3/ARA for stretching/pitching purposes (cf. Studio One).
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- KVRian
- 911 posts since 10 Dec, 2013
I understand their desire to keep the timestretching in house as it a.) gives them more creative control and b.) reduces licensing costs for what is still a fairly small company compared to more established DAWs.
However, I do think timestretch has been overlooked until now, presumably because they've been focussing their efforts elsewhere. I'd really like more control, more modes, and the ability to automate things like grain size. Lots of experimental electronic music makes heavy use of Ableton's grain & beat stretching modes, and it's one thing I really miss in Bitwig.
However, I do think timestretch has been overlooked until now, presumably because they've been focussing their efforts elsewhere. I'd really like more control, more modes, and the ability to automate things like grain size. Lots of experimental electronic music makes heavy use of Ableton's grain & beat stretching modes, and it's one thing I really miss in Bitwig.
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- KVRian
- 1262 posts since 15 May, 2002 from Finland
"Bad" for melodic sounds and sound design, but very good for stretching of full mixes. The last version of Live! I used for my livesets was 9.0 or 9.1, it was still using Elastique V2, at least with that even the tiniest changes of BPM degraded the sound considerably to the point of being unusable IMO since Elastique was not intended for such use (and it did not help at all that Live did not allow for finetuning of Elastique parameters like Reaper for example). I read somewhere from on of the devs I think that the algorithm of BW was designed with music in mind. So if they ever change it, I hope they keep the current one for DJ sets
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- KVRist
- 235 posts since 12 Mar, 2017
Yes,
also current algorithm doesn't require you to wait for ages,
like it's happening with FLStudio, when all the stretching/loading samples bullshit takes sooo much time...
Some kind of compromise is required.
also current algorithm doesn't require you to wait for ages,
like it's happening with FLStudio, when all the stretching/loading samples bullshit takes sooo much time...
Some kind of compromise is required.
