Endless possibilities - but everyone thinking along the same route?

[stratum]

There was an article in BBC which claimed native english speakers are the most difficult ones to understand. http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201610 ... municators
Perhaps that's a part of the problem here, you seem to be using language freely with its all shades of gray and expect that to be understood.

That gives a clue about another problem - lacking an understanding of those shades of gray may mean that non-native speakers of english are only comfortable among themselves because their expressions are not perfectly polite to native speakers.

[nineofkings]

Xoxos is the James Joyce of KVR. We know this.

[chk071]

There was an article in BBC which claimed native english speakers are the most difficult ones to understand. http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201610 ... municators
Perhaps that's a part of the problem here, you seem to be using language freely with its all shades of gray and expect that to be understood.

By his own admission, he's speaking "abstract", or something similar. I don't understand it too. Maybe i have to travel to Rigel 5 to do so. Or, he's gotta get down to earth, and realize that people don't understand you, if you're talking pseudo-intellectual gibberish.

[harryupbabble]

My guess is that the general public don't listen to music the way musicians do. They are not "in the know". There is no analyzing. And atonal and "weird" music to the general public must be like what a rapist is to the victim. The victim keeps saying no, no, no. And a century of the general public saying no to atonal music must mean something. Maybe atonal music is just one of those things that doesn't work too well, like a dictatorial political system, or a bad car design?

I'm not sure about this but in nature... isn't it the mainstream that moves forward... implying that the mainstream is natural?
Just asking questions cos Google doesn't really answer back and twenty twenty twenty four hours ago I wanna be educated.
Nothing to do, no where to go, I wanna be educated.

[harryupbabble]

To me, atonal and other weird music is like ""you have no intelligence", "I despise you", "but even though I despise you, I want you to appreciate me even though I know you don't get it".

[Numanoid]

The electronic age cut up musical history.

+1 "Cut" is the keyword:

To get off the beaten track employ some lateral thinking ala Alexander The Great and cut the gordian knots of the mind

[herodotus]

My guess is that the general public don't listen to music the way musicians do. They are not "in the know". There is no analyzing. And atonal and "weird" music to the general public must be like what a rapist is to the victim. The victim keeps saying no, no, no. And a century of the general public saying no to atonal music must mean something. Maybe atonal music is just one of those things that doesn't work too well, like a dictatorial political system, or a bad car design?

Just guessing, but maybe the reason that atonal music doesn't 'work' for the general public is that they don't understand it and they don't want to try.

I have never understood why people are so open to believing that voters aren't very smart, but are reluctant to believe that listeners aren't very smart.

And do people who complain about stupid voters give up on their beliefs because the people want, say, Trump? If not, why should musicians give up what they believe?

[harryupbabble]

But the rock and pop musicians seem to outnumber the avant garde musicians. That may be good or it may be bad. But maybe it's just nature?

[stratum]

But maybe it's just nature?

It's just nature. What sounds harmonious and what causes dissonance is tracable to a few simple mathematical ratios about note frequencies. Going against that is adventure, and that means musicians experimenting with atonal compositions have created those compositions for their own enjoyment. probably they have liked the intellectual challenge involved in doing so.

[nineofkings]

To me, atonal and other weird music is like ""you have no intelligence", "I despise you", "but even though I despise you, I want you to appreciate me even though I know you don't get it".

As I tried to explain in my earlier post - the point is not that people are gonna all start listening to atonal music. The point is that those ideas have actually influenced popular music! Even the Beatles did it with A Day In the Life.

Here's an example from one of the most iconic movies & scores of all time. Starting at 1:52, what key is this piece in? Trick question. https://youtu.be/yHfLyMAHrQE?t=1m52s

All new ideas are strange and alienating at first, but they get absorbed into the mainstream eventually.

[Aleatoriac]

And atonal and "weird" music to the general public must be like what a rapist is to the victim. The victim keeps saying no, no, no.

To which I say... yes... I will continue to rape people in the ears. Eventually they will succumb.

[harryupbabble]

I don't know. That Arnold S. guy seemed hell-bent on replacing tonal music. Not the "I'll be back" Arnold.

[ghettosynth]

http://www.submediant.com/2015/11/02/st ... all-along/

[harryupbabble]

It didn't seem like it was just intellectual exercise. Arnold had disciples and stuff. A movement.

[ariston]

Research (and common sense?) seems to indicate that listening habits and music appreciation are very much culturally dependent. There is no "natural rule" as to what is seen as "harmonious" vs. "dissonant". It's NOT nature.

Put simply: if you're raised on pap, you will prefer pap over everything else. Unless you call your habits into question, in which case you may transcend them. And open yourself to pip, pop, and maybe even pep. But that takes effort, and most people don't make the effort because it's just not that important to them. Which is fine. Filling out my income tax forms makes my head ache, but I hear that some people actually love doing that. Fine, as well. It's a big world, and there's room enough for tastes of all kind.