Is plugin market going down?

[KBSoundSmith]

I do not have opinions about conversion rates from other plugin makers, but considering many of them regularly run 50-75% sales their actions look desperate.

You are so wrong. Making a couple of million.. when did that become "desperate"? No, it's the age-old "sales light the wallet" thing that has been the pinnacle of every modern success story in retail.

The shops that are still trying to desperately cling to old ways of selling things are going the way of the dodo.

It's not at all a coincidence that online stores that have constant sales (be it clothes, computer parts, music equipment etc) are the ones that have become giants.

Your way of thinking is very outdated and definitely not at all based on facts.

There's a massive difference between gigantic discount retailers who can exist on thinner profit margins due to distribution advantages and sales volume, versus a tiny developer producing a handful of niche products to a very small market. The survival strategies are radically different -- and for a plug-in developer in the music industry, yes, steep and frequent discounting could easily prove fatal. I very strongly doubt that "Making a couple million" describes the typical plug-in developer.

EDIT: Just noticed you added more to your post...

This probably means the swing will go the other way. To counter this race to the bottom market you need a very solid product that becomes "must have" and then price it accordingly, never having any sales at all (ala U-He) thus dramatically increasing the perceived value of the product. The problem is creating such a product as it needs to be top of the line, in every category (this means very good graphics). It also needs serious celebrity endorsement and of course it means being a truly exceptional product.

I still very much believe in that good products will sell if given enough exposure. Sound quality is still a very big factor. There are still seemingly simple plugins released in this day and age that just take your breath away because they immediately just "sound better" than the alternative.

...a solid addition. Spot on, IMO.

[aciddose]

Amazon's secret is that customers are extremely misguided and fail to realize the prices are actually not less or better than other suppliers, nor is the delivery time or security of the transaction. They are in many cases far worse.

The difficulty is that the majority of customers are extremely uneducated and Amazon actively manipulates customers to maximize profit by estimating their lack of education about particular products and services. Did you think "most customers who purchased X also purchased Y" was a good thing? Allowing all your transactions to be tracked and stored indefinitely? Surely they only intend to help you make wise purchase decisions and not at all to help themselves to your wallet!

The dodo was driven extinct by the introduction of the most horrific predator on earth. Humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

[mholloway]

Amazon's secret is that customers are extremely misguided and fail to realize the prices are actually not less or better than other suppliers, nor is the delivery time or security of the transaction. They are in many cases far worse.

The difficulty is that the majority of customers are extremely uneducated and Amazon actively manipulates customers to maximize profit by estimating their lack of education about particular products and services. Did you think "most customers who purchased X also purchased Y" was a good thing? Allowing all your transactions to be tracked and stored indefinitely? Surely they only intend to help you make wise purchase decisions and not at all to help themselves to your wallet!

The dodo was driven extinct by the introduction of the most horrific predator on earth. Humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

Somebody obviously has an axe to grind, yikes. On what are you basing your criticisms of Amazon? Care to provide any actual data / analysis, or are we just supposed to take your angry word for it?

In my experience, it's very easy to cross-reference Amazon's listed prices against any possible competitors / other sales sites. It's either cheaper there or it isn't. If it is, I will likely buy from them. End of story. Does this fit your profile of manipulation of a dumb, uninformed consumer?

[masterhiggins]

Amazon's secret is that customers are extremely misguided and fail to realize the prices are actually not less or better than other suppliers, nor is the delivery time or security of the transaction. They are in many cases far worse.

The difficulty is that the majority of customers are extremely uneducated and Amazon actively manipulates customers to maximize profit by estimating their lack of education about particular products and services. Did you think "most customers who purchased X also purchased Y" was a good thing? Allowing all your transactions to be tracked and stored indefinitely? Surely they only intend to help you make wise purchase decisions and not at all to help themselves to your wallet!

The dodo was driven extinct by the introduction of the most horrific predator on earth. Humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

Okay, contempt for humanity aside, a lot of people buy from Amazon for more reasons than prices.

1) Convenience. Sometimes saving yourself an hour or two in rush hour traffic is worth it. Also, because they sell such a large range of products, it consolidates several purchases into one. If you want to buy a Blu-Ray or CD as well as toilet bowl cleaner, you’re in luck. I hate driving and I hate public transit. It’s perfect.

2) Return policy. In the event that the product is defective or damaged, Amazon will ship you a new one and pay for return shipping (closely related to the first reason). They’ll even pick it up from your door.

3) Yes, it’s fast. Two-day shipping (when a Prime member) is much faster than most other online retailers. Again, this is assuming you're buying online. If you live in a metro area that has a hub nearby (such as MPLS), it’s even faster. If you insist on driving or taking the bus to buy something, well nothing’s going to be faster than that, but a good chunk of your time is wasted. I buy from a LOT of online retailers. Amazon is nearly always the fastest, only second to Apple, who are able to somehow have a laptop delivered from China next day.

When Amazon is NOT cheaper, I go to retailers like BHPhoto or Jrrshop. They take several more days to arrive, but sometimes the savings is worth it.

[aciddose]

I suppose you haven't seen the studies about this.

You're right but only in very limited circumstances where the product you want is located in a warehouse in your state and can be shipped quickly via primary routes.

If you live out in the boonies it's another story.

People use services like these because they aren't required to wear pants. That pretty much sums it up.

Comparing between online retailers misses the point. You could also head down to a local shop and get the same or identical products for the same or less cost for non-obscure products.

For obscure products things are a lot more complicated. You often have no alternative source for such a product and no comparison can be made. Especially products with low margin which most retailers couldn't stock due to overhead costs can suddenly be shipped to you by some bloke in pajamas working out of his shed. That said when these products are supplied by third parties you really aren't dealing with the huge predatory retailer anymore are you? You're in reality dealing with that dude in pajamas and giving the predatory retailer all the credit.

[aciddose]

In my experience, it's very easy to cross-reference Amazon's listed prices against any possible competitors / other sales sites. It's either cheaper there or it isn't. If it is, I will likely buy from them. End of story. Does this fit your profile of manipulation of a dumb, uninformed consumer?

Yes. What does the final charge look like compared to the advertised price during your comparisons? I wouldn't believe you if you said they're the same because they never are. I'm sure you thought that was some sort of accident or perhaps an inevitability? It certainly is inevitable but not for the reasons you may assume.

Defending them because they are massively profitable doesn't make the least bit of sense. It's some kooky Americanism at play. God bless the almighty dollar and all that. In reality the reason they're more profitable than competitors is that they've taken more of your money.

[elxsound]

In my experience, it's very easy to cross-reference Amazon's listed prices against any possible competitors / other sales sites. It's either cheaper there or it isn't. If it is, I will likely buy from them. End of story. Does this fit your profile of manipulation of a dumb, uninformed consumer?

Yes. What does the final charge look like compared to the advertised price during your comparisons? I wouldn't believe you if you said they're the same because they never are. I'm sure you thought that was some sort of accident or perhaps an inevitability? It certainly is inevitable but not for the reasons you may assume.

Defending them because they are massively profitable doesn't make the least bit of sense. It's some kooky Americanism at play. God bless the almighty dollar and all that. In reality they reason they're more profitable than competitors is that they've taken more of your money.

Have you ever shopped on Amazon before? Doesn't sound like it.

Anyway, a before arguing with you... a big quesrtion... where is your source for your claims or did you just decide it must be true?

Wherever I shop for goods, I shop for the lowest price. Period. Even Amazon prices fluctuate greatly and there are many tools for tracking those prices, including average price, highest price and lowest price. You can even get email alerts for items you wish too... so if you are a savvy buyer, you don't overpay.

[ghettosynth]

In my experience, it's very easy to cross-reference Amazon's listed prices against any possible competitors / other sales sites. It's either cheaper there or it isn't. If it is, I will likely buy from them. End of story. Does this fit your profile of manipulation of a dumb, uninformed consumer?

Yes. What does the final charge look like compared to the advertised price during your comparisons? I wouldn't believe you if you said they're the same because they never are. I'm sure you thought that was some sort of accident or perhaps an inevitability? It certainly is inevitable but not for the reasons you may assume.

Defending them because they are massively profitable doesn't make the least bit of sense. It's some kooky Americanism at play. God bless the almighty dollar and all that. In reality the reason they're more profitable than competitors is that they've taken more of your money.

But often much less of your money, give the convenience, than equally convenient alternatives.

One of the things that I regularly order from Amazon are parts from China from American resellers who offer prime. No, it's not cheaper than eBay, but Yes, it's always much cheaper than Fry's. I have had stuff come from china on ebay in days, and I've had stuff take months. If I know I need it now, I pay the premium and get it from Amazon.

Cables are definitely cheap on Amazon, they might be AS cheap elsewhere, but hey're not AS cheap as Guitar Center.

I think that if you blindly order from Amazon, you are paying more than the best possible prices you could get at other retailers. However, once you start factoring in the time of screwing around, it's often not worth the difference. It's rarely worse than what's easy to find locally.

I just purchased a part for my furnace that I needed NOW! About $25 from Amazon, would have been about $17 if I didn't need it now. Best price locally was $40 and I had to drive 15 miles one way to get it. I have no idea where online to get furnace parts in onsey twosey quantity quickly and at low cost. So, whatever the difference is, since I can assume that it will be at best a few dollars, I don't care.

Yes Amazon is going to try to get the most in aggregate across all of their customers, don't all retailers?

[aciddose]

I regularly use Amazon, I'm just not ignorant of fluctuating prices vs. shipping, tax handling and other complex behavior or the reason (in most cases justified) for those behaviors.

You need to be a little less trusting. If you showed the same faith in Amazon as you do in me you'd be better off in the long run.

This is totally off-topic and missing my point about predators and the irony at play in usage of "the way of the dodo."

You need to ask how much you've spent in total vs. in a world without online retailers? They don't need to rip you off; they can be wildly successful by encouraging you to over-consume or become far less selective about what you actually need to purchase.

The key words are: "because they've taken more of your money."

[elxsound]

I regularly use Amazon, I'm just not ignorant of fluctuating prices vs. shipping, tax handling and other complex behavior or the reason (in most cases justified) for those behaviors.

You need to be a little less trusting. If you showed the same faith in Amazon as you do in me you'd be better off in the long run.

This is totally off-topic and missing my point about predators and the irony at play in usage of "the way of the dodo."

You need to ask how much you've spent in total vs. in a world without online retailers? They don't need to rip you off; they can be wildly successful by encouraging you to over-consume or become far less selective about what you actually need to purchase.

The key words are: "because they've taken more of your money."

That makes no sense. You assume nobody but you has taken into consideration, tax and shipping before purchasing... but yet we should trust you? You must be the only one on this planet that knows how to manage your funds.

Anyway, your point about predators is only so relevant that it remains true... so there goes back to my questioning for proof to your claim as it seems its more your intuition than anything with actual evidence based on the very wide brush you covered the Amazon customer base.

[aciddose]

I haven't said anything about an "amazon customer base" and I'm not sure why you're so interested in being offended. It's as if your mother's name was "Amazon".

If you're confused by what I've said "that makes no sense" don't try telling me what I meant by it.

[elxsound]

I haven't said anything about an "amazon customer base"

Hmmm....

Amazon's secret is that customers are extremely misguided and fail to realize the prices are actually not less or better than other suppliers, nor is the delivery time or security of the transaction. They are in many cases far worse.

The difficulty is that the majority of customers are extremely uneducated and Amazon actively manipulates customers to maximize profit by estimating their lack of education about particular products and services.

[aciddose]

Yes, customers. In fact this was an understatement as what I intended to say was all active participants in any sector of any economy.

https://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Nations-A ... 1505577128

[elxsound]

Yes, customers. In fact this was an understatement as what I intended to say was all active participants in any sector of any economy.

https://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Nations-A ... 1505577128

Yes, it was clearly evident that was what you meant, just as it's clear what you mean now. Specificity goes a long ways.

[aciddose]

Are you still offended because you use Amazon?

It would make more sense to be offended because I called you a horrific predator