Endless possibilities - but everyone thinking along the same route?

[Lotuzia]

Hi guys,

I'm just some kind of bedroom producer for fun and for myself, open for a lot of music. Mostly I listen to Ae like style, but also like 50% at home in the classical world, Shostakovich, Bruckner, also Purcell/Baroque etc. I'm playing clarinet since 5 years and currently I am recording and sorting my clarinet sounds, in order to be able to use them in whatever way. My dream is, ... I wish I could create a complex symphony from electronic instruments... which "works". "Works" to me means, in a musical way. I don't want weird instruments to be the selling point, but the music. Classical instruments work, because we learned, it's a cultural process, instrument x helps with feeling/emotion y. Electronic instruments are lacking this culture. This is basic challenge I think.
I see things also from this simple point: Classical composers like Shostakovich are great in creating complex works, great at music and music theory. They know which instrument can do what they need, which limits it has etc. etc.
But in in theory, we have more possibilities. We have an endless # of instruments (vst+fx). Still we create no big ideas. But we should be able to create even better music, but don't! Well, I want to try. Probably will fail but hey... fun.

OK, now sporadically going through the tutorials of friendly people on Youtube, I get soooo disappointed, as so many of them seem to think the same way.
- "Phat bass in Massive"
- "Phat leadz with Sylenth"
- "How to create a super wobble with serum"

I mean, they could do so much more but their way of thinking seems to lead to some generic sounding electronic dance music. It's disappointing! Guys like Ae show, there could be done so much more, just look at tracks like Pendulu Hv moda.. Open thinking! Phat Bass. Pffffft. Start experimenting with a weak bass. A broken bass. A whatever bass. A bass which is not a bass. Whatever serves the music you have in mind...

I don't know. Maybe I just want to say I watched the wrong tutorials

Thanks for your time.

Shostakovich and so many others did not invest time into inventing new classical instruments. They however invested time into using what already existed in their own way.

So, as you noted, they studied them, knew their limits etc.

The same should be applied for electronic instruments : If they have their limits in expressivness, they also have their strengths, and specific and unique possibilities. A bit of study/experiment about all that is probably important.

Nowadays you can mary acoustic, electric, electronic instruments and merge them within your own and unique composition cauldron. The last thing needed was already needed in the ancient times, and will be in the future times : Some kind of talent.

Future is bright. Just write it.

[stonestreet]

I think that being human was just a fad and like peak oil peaked a long time ago. Being human is a consensual affair. There does not appear to me to be much consensus any more. I see so much monkey business going on. There are many ways to skin a cat and each way is valid. Even in this thread there is evidence of denying the other, aggression and out for the win. Somebody even had a recognition of dictatorship.

It saddens me as being human had so much promiss.

I wonder what the OP thinks. The anatomy of the crab is repetitive and rhythical. It is like music, repetitive with modulation.

Interesating old article by Warren McCulloch: What is a number that a man may know it, and a man that he may know a number. - It is a brief history from plato to John Von Neumann, computing machines, neural nets and beyond.

Have fun

[stratum]

There are many ways to skin a cat and each way is valid. Even in this thread there is evidence of denying the other, aggression and out for the win.

Even in this thread a pattern for the search of truth via debating can be observed, but you know, not everybody has to see it that way. One can always cherry pick and ignore the argument, or the fact that it was moving from A to B and reaching a conclusion. Conclusions aren't always correct, you can help by arguing in some other direction or tell us what we have missed or ignored as evidence.

[nineofkings]

1.5:1

E->A ==
1:1.3333333333333

ftfy 8D

That is a 4th . Common miscommunication, cause it's a 4th in diatonic-land even though it's 5 semitones away. A fifth in diatonic-land is 7 semitones.

Also, @stratum, yes the Debussy piece is generally considered atonal or post-tonal, because the harmonies don't function in any one key, they're just "harmonic colors." I chose it specifically because it's pretty and doesn't sound like a horror movie even though it's not really tonal. It's like Herodotus said, it can still be consonant

[stonestreet]

There are many ways to skin a cat and each way is valid. Even in this thread there is evidence of denying the other, aggression and out for the win.

Even in this thread a pattern for the search of truth via debating can be observed, but you know, not everybody has to see it that way. One can always cherry pick and ignore the argument, or the fact that it was moving from A to B and reaching a conclusion. Conclusions aren't always correct, you can help by arguing in some other direction or tell us what we have missed or ignored as evidence.

I am wondering if it is a search for the truth in some cases. Afterall we are emotional animals that will use reason to justify our desires.

[nix808]

oh ok sorry-
that's interesting then that 7 semitones 1:1.5
so the harmonic relationship of waves syncing nicely is plain

[ghettosynth]

Submediant is a joke website, that article is satire.

Party pooper! One point for ghetto, I could have had more, damn it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

[stratum]

yes the Debussy piece is generally considered atonal or post-tonal, because the harmonies don't function in any one key, they're just "harmonic colors." I chose it specifically because it's pretty and doesn't sound like a horror movie even though it's not really tonal. It's like Herodotus said, it can still be consonant

Looks like one does not need a key if the scales are suitable for forming harmonies in general. Would he be able to do the same using these scales? Not all of them are actually weird stuff, some of them are identical to western scales, but to my ears making this music polyphonic does not seem to be a very successful effort. Perhaps I just don't like it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makam

I am wondering if it is a search for the truth in some cases. Afterall we are emotional animals that will use reason to justify our desires.

Perhaps one should search for that truth too, in some other thread. I don't know if decartes, penrose or daniel dennet would win, but I'm sure it will get messy enough to be moved to off topic/hyde park corner.

[Numanoid]

To look at someone like Debussy, or John Coltrane if you like, and think "ah, well, Bach could've done that" is not true. It's hard to see how we got to where we are today because we're living in it, but it's taken a few centuries and the way we write music (i.e. the theory of music) has evolved.

Debussy had another advantage, he preferred cats over people.

(according to Art Of Noise's "The Seduction of Claude Debussy")

[xoxos]

Debussy had another advantage, he preferred cats over people.

if you consider this an advantage, you've had some easy cats.

[harryupbabble]

Cats are great. Supposedly, they are all sociopaths. They don't tend to need tender loving care and so if you are super-busy cats don't seem to care about being neglected. All they seem to care about is "feed me, feed me, you fool". And because of that I just want to punch his furface sometimes. Not really.

Once, I remember tripping and hurting myself and expressed pain and my dog was kind of like "dude, dude... are you okay?". I've never experienced that with any cat. Cats seem like they are thinking "okay human, you do whatever you do and I will just sit here and look at the birds out the window all day and pretend I am killing them and in between I will take a billion naps and then at night I will go after the mice and if that will make you happy I don't care."

[Numanoid]

Cats are great.

You don't say

I mean, as in stating the obvious. Where would KVR by without cats?

[stonestreet]

I am wondering if it is a search for the truth in some cases. Afterall we are emotional animals that will use reason to justify our desires.

Perhaps one should search for that truth too, in some other thread. I don't know if decartes, penrose or daniel dennet would win, but I'm sure it will get messy enough to be moved to off topic/hyde park corner.

What a great thread. Been back to page 1 to read it all again.

I think that my contribution is just as relevant to the OP as everybody elses. You may not see it but that does not mean it is not the case. I have used the same letters of the alphabet for starters. Just commenting on what I see.

You will listen to me through your predujices and I will listen to you through my predujices. You said yourself that "What one can compose and communicate to the listener is limited by the listener." It seems to me that you are suggesting I go elsewhere than remain in this thread.

If the OP informed me that my contribution is not what he/she is after. I would probably say "No worries" and go on my merry way. Depending on my state of mind I could go all positive feedback and stay just because I can.

I commented on the denial of the other. Your remark to me supports my view. Well it would wouldn't it. What makes you think I will be the trigger a move to Hyde Park Corner when compared to some of the remarks in this thread.

I have heard that the Austrians have an expression "Let blockheads be blockheads" You could have ignored me, just let me be. Like I said I would probably just go on my merry way. I have made 294 posts since 2009, you have made more in a shorter time. I learnt recently on some forum that your post count determines how good your music is, gives some sort of authority or something. Time is short I need to increase my post count quickly. He he.

Anyways have fun

[stratum]

I think that my contribution is just as relevant to the OP as everybody elses. You may not see it but that does not mean it is not the case. I have used the same letters of the alphabet for starters. Just commenting on what I see.

It was relevant, but we were concentrated on the details of another argument at that point, and your conclusion was actually the same before we had completed the details about it. I had told the same thing basically a few pages ago but somebody had decided to examine that argument by providing a few counter examples. Yours wasn't a counter argument. It wasn't ignored, it was agreed upon without stating it. You wanted to state the same argument form a systems point of view, and you did it. What works works, and what doesn't work doesn't. Only the working systems will be preserved, obviously. Endless possibilities, everyone thinking alone the same route. Why? Because we don't really have many other ways. There aren't really 'endless possibilities'. What we have is the same theory since J.S.Bach, we are only discovering what parts of it are really relevant. So, where is the disagreement with your statement? It just wasn't commented upon.

[jancivil]

yes the Debussy piece is generally considered atonal or post-tonal, because the harmonies don't function in any one key, they're just "harmonic colors." I chose it specifically because it's pretty and doesn't sound like a horror movie even though it's not really tonal. It's like Herodotus said, it can still be consonant

Looks like one does not need a key if the scales are suitable for forming harmonies in general. Would he be able to do the same using these scales? Not all of them are actually weird stuff, some of them are identical to western scales, but to my ears making this music polyphonic does not seem to be a very successful effort. Perhaps I just don't like it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makam

No, it isn't you. Maqam is not made to construct sonorities or harmonies off of. Intervals are formed from a different system than 'western' scales. And too many just don't lend to tertial, let alone triadic formation.