Should I ditch the NS10's and go active?

[JCJR]

Agreed, but it doesn't seem too unreasonable to want a simple quiet amp. There's just so few new fanless amps! Main one looks to be the Behringer A500, but am not overly keen on the brand...

So far as I recall, in usa web stores, inexpensive mid power fanless models from alesis and behringer. Art makes some similar models but so far as I recall the arts have fans.

I'm perhaps too paranoid, but both had too many unhappy user reviews to my liking, though maybe they are "on average" real nice cheap amps and squeaky wheels were the only guys posting reviews. Its hard to judge.

I didn't care about new vs used, just wanted good-enough amps less than 10 years old, so I wouldn't have to worry about the capacitors for a few years.

Also I would not personally buy an amp that does not include mechanical output relay speaker protection. Most modern amps have several protection mechanisms, and of course even a mechanical speaker cutout relay can fail, but I'd rather have the relays just in case the solid state protections fail if/when the output or driver transistors fry. Amps can have many failure modes, and it is annoying to repair fried speakers along with repairing/replacing a fried amp.

Anyway, for the homemade studio monitor horns, only needed 40 watts rms per channel because horns are so efficient and don't need much power at home. Haunting ebay, got a great little pro low-mileage ashly single rack 40 w/ch fanless amp for $110. Those thangs sell new closer to $1000.

In addition to ashly, several companies make real nice single rack fanless amps in that power/spec range, typically $700+ retail.

Maybe am wrong, but I got the impression that that class of small amp is frequently used in radio and tv studios, and maybe the big chains of broadcasters replace all the entire studios every few years, selling off the old ones cheap. Maybe there is some other explanation, but noticed that it was common to see one salvage company selling numerous identical "a few years old" near mint amps and such, cheap. Or maybe they pull em out of walmarts or whatever. Just doesn't seem that a walmart would buy quite that nice of an amp for distorted "Attention shoppers" announcements. But mebbe so.

For low level near field monitoring the first watt is the most important one, but with NS10 maybe 40 w/ch might not be "quite enough" headroom. Or maybe it would be quite sufficient. Dunno.

Crown made popular amps in that format, dc75 and dc60 and such. Lots of em fer sail used, some rather cheap. But I didn't want an amp old enough to risk dried out caps. If I want to recap amps, already got some.

[lfm]

I think a ordinary hifi amp like Harman Kardon HK980 is really good value, and do 80W 8 ohm and 120W 4 ohm.
And good dynamic characeristics 120W 8 ohm, 200W 4 ohm. Sounds terrific and has remote and all.

You have overload headroom on 4V in CD and Tuner input, so ordinary line out would work from audio interface on -10dB.

No fans, all passive cooling.

I have one speaker pair for hifi, and one pair in other end of room for mixing where daw is.

[Richard deHove]

@jc Yes, the reviews on Behringer A500 are offputting. Many are glowing about how wonderful, but then there are also many talking about gear DOA, and crazy levels of heat and hiss. Bit too much of a lucky dip. Then looking at the reviews of power amps with fans people talk about being able to"live with" the noise, or that it only switches on every 5 minutes or so... The happiest people seem to have the amp in a different room.

@lfm Really liking the look of that Harman Kardon HK 980. Good reviews, good price and probably enough power for the job.

[JCJR]

Yes fan complaints are common. My xls are mounted in the bottom of an Ultimate Support open A frame rack less than a meter distant from the listening position. I never hear the xls fans in my situation. Couldn't say whether the fans are on or off at any particular moment.

If micing a quiet acoustic guitar in the same room maybe the condenser mics could easily hear what I do not. In that case the mics would also be hearing computer fans, the refrigerator one room away, the hvac air handler 2 rooms away, neighborhood dogs, lawnmowers, leaf blowers and chainsaws, and trucks from several blocks away. At least one could temporarily turn off the amps!

The only way I "know" about the fans is I would see them thru the chassis grills occasionally slowly rotate. When I was workbench spark testing them for a few days, before they were installed in the office.

On the other hand the amps barely idle in my situation. The speakers are efficient and the amps are "barely turned on" to get adequate nearfield levels. Driving less efficient speakers louder, perhaps in a large home theater-- After the movie scene with several minutes loud gunfire and yelling, finally culminating in the subwoofer-blowing starship explosion-- The amp might have worked up enough of a sweat to be running the fans fast and loud during the movie's quiet love scene following the explosion. In that use maybe fan noise could be annoying.

For my use a home stereo amp would not be desirable if not rack mountable. The small office is too crowded to find space for stacking up non-rack amps.

[Richard deHove]

Turns out the Harman Kardon HK980 isn't imported here anymore Even looked into used Bryston 4B but the only one in my area is $4K !

Think I've come full circle and am heading back towards the Crown.

Here's a n00b question: How do you mute the power amp to just listen through headphones?

I'm always switching between the two and donlt really want to be riding volume knobs all day. Yet the power amps don't have the simple 'speakers off' function that hifis have.

[ghettosynth]

Turns out the Harman Kardon HK980 isn't imported here anymore Even looked into used Bryston 4B but the only one in my area is $4K !

Think I've come full circle and am heading back towards the Crown.

Here's a n00b question: How do you mute the power amp to just listen through headphones?

I'm always switching between the two and donlt really want to be riding volume knobs all day. Yet the power amps don't have the simple 'speakers off' function that hifis have.

I'm pretty happy with my Presonus monitor station. I wouldn't go back to not using something like this. Most expensive volume knob that I've ever purchased, but, it gets the job done and is useful in other ways in a small home studio with the multiple headphone outputs.

In my "hardware studio", I just turn the power amp off.

[Richard deHove]

Thanks! It's a whole class of hardware I didn't even know existed. I think the Big Knob should do the trick!
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... tudio.html

[Richard deHove]

Just for completeness and anyone considering the same options in the future, I ended up keeping the NS10ms and added a Crown XLS1002. There's a Monicon passive volume controller (with mute and mono options) in the chain as well.

The Crown is set to about one-quarter volume and the Monicon volume knob anywhere from 50% to 90%. The amp fan comes on for about 30 seconds every few days although the amp itself is never hot or even reasonably warm. The fan is quite loud when it comes on - like a ancient PC fan straining against layers of dust.

The sound from the NS10m/Crown combo is excellent (certainly doesn't feel mismatched), nothing is being pushed, and the solution was low-cost. Very happy. Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice.

[ghettosynth]

Just for completeness and anyone considering the same options in the future, I ended up keeping the NS10ms and added a Crown XLS1002. There's a Monicon passive volume controller (with mute and mono options) in the chain as well.

The Crown is set to about one-quarter volume and the Monicon volume knob anywhere from 50% to 90%. The amp fan comes on for about 30 seconds every few days although the amp itself is never hot or even reasonably warm. The fan is quite loud when it comes on - like a ancient PC fan straining against layers of dust.

The sound from the NS10m/Crown combo is excellent (certainly doesn't feel mismatched), nothing is being pushed, and the solution was low-cost. Very happy. Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice.

I'm not suggesting that you do this, warranty and safety and all that. However, if it were my amp I'd probably replace that fan with something quieter/slower. It's almost certainly temperature driven so it would still shut off at the right time. Often it's just a matter of running the fan on a lower voltage. You can probably get a PC fan speed controller.

Like I said though, don't do it. (but I would)

[JCJR]

I'm glad you found something you like. Doesn't sound like the fan behavior bothers you, and from the description it wouldn't bother me.

I don't know anything about that model of crown but from the description maybe its fan is designed to be either on or off. My "old model" xls digital crowns would probably have rather loud fans at full speed but for home studio use have never driven the amps hard enough to get the fans to run fast and dunno how loud that would be.

As you report, under my low power usage the fans rarely turn on usually only for about a half minute. But apparently mine are vari speed fans because when they turn on the blades turn slow and I can't hear them running that slow mounted in the rack. I just noted the behavior at initial bench testing where it was easy to see the fans inside the rear of the perf metal chassis.

Am just guessing mine would run faster/louder if working them anywhere near their rated power. But am fairly certain they would speed up under heavy load.. If running that much power it would be hard to hear loud fans because of the loud music.

[ghettosynth]

Am just guessing mine would run faster/louder if working them anywhere near their rated power. But am fairly certain they would speed up under heavy load.. If running that much power it would be hard to hear loud fans because of the loud music.

Yes. My little Alto 10" two ways, which I do use in my studio as performance monitors work this way. The fan is often just spinning quite slowly, or just fidgeting really. They spin much faster under load of course and, absolutely, you can't hear them because it's always quiet with respect to the audio. Interestingly, my sub which has twice the power, is completely fanless.

[hybridstudios]

I'm sure you made a decision by now, but my vote would be stick to the ns10s. They have that certain kid honkyness that kinda shines a spotlight on a mix. If you can get NS10s to sound good, the mix/master will sound great everywhere else lol

[Stupid American Pig]

Am just guessing mine would run faster/louder if working them anywhere near their rated power. But am fairly certain they would speed up under heavy load.. If running that much power it would be hard to hear loud fans because of the loud music.

Yes. My little Alto 10" two ways, which I do use in my studio as performance monitors work this way. The fan is often just spinning quite slowly, or just fidgeting really. They spin much faster under load of course and, absolutely, you can't hear them because it's always quiet with respect to the audio. Interestingly, my sub which has twice the power, is completely fanless.

Im guessing the sub is a class d amp which runs much cooler per watt than a class a/b would

[Winstontaneous]

As an NS10 non believer I have never really understand why in these days of fantastic, powered alternatives people still cling on to them.

Transient response/low group delay due to sealed cabinet design, though they're not the only monitors with that characteristic.

[JCJR]

Long ago pro amps with fans were the exception rather than the rule. High power class AB achieved with huge convection-cooled heatsinks. Which makes for bigger, heavier and more-expensive products.

Of course the concept of "high power" has changed as well. In the 1970's and 1980's 400 or 500 watts RMS per channel was considered a high power amp and they were huge and weighed a ton. From the 1980's on they grew fans and slightly more power and slightly less weight. Then truly high power light weight digital amps came online that made it silly to carry racks of class AB amps to big sound gigs. But the fan noise doesn't matter at all on a loud live gig, and big/heavy doesn't necessarily matter to a fixed installation such as studio.

But fanless + high power class AB will be big and heavy, and therefore probably expensive as well.