KVR Audio

krankyone · Post by **krankyone** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:19 pm

This video said that there was a different convolver for every voice that can track note pitch and tempo.

That is definitely something that would be hard to do with Ableton racks. I have no idea how to even try that.

So, never mind

.

spektralisk · Post by **spektralisk** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:34 pm

Yeah, every voice has its own impulse generated on the fly (so I suspect that impulse response is tuned for each voice) - obviously it's impossible to do in Live just with its Convolution device - you probably could achieve that with max for live though. I'm still curious however how rhythmic stuff in convolution affects the sounds in sources in Phobos - if it's the same kind of results as in Live then I would probably stay happy with Live's Convolution. Otoh I really would like to have the ability to import my own sounds into Phobos - then it would be much more appealing to me (hopefully guys at Spitfire will "open" it for us).

hyperscientist · Post by **hyperscientist** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:10 pm

I suspect it will get this ability at some point. At every single forum everywhere there are two major features people request: ability to import samples and better preset browser with ability to store user presets. Spitfire is no Izotope, so they won't abandon this product like Izotope did with two collaborations with BT and pretty much every other time they had a chance.

superscan · Post by **superscan** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:41 pm

I own it, and played with it the day it came out. Mac 10.12 w/Logic 10.3.1, no issues installing (you must use the new Spitfire Installer v2). I'm honestly underwhelmed, and wondering if it was just me. I did some preset diving and just didn't click with anything other than one preset. I own a bunch of Spitfire libraries and have always been delightfully surprised with them and the quality of their products.

First time I've invested in an expensive mistake. I'm regretting my pre-buy. Really watch the now available videos and see it anything gels with you. I'd be happy to return the license and get Spitfire credit.

simmo75 · Post by **simmo75** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:43 pm

superscan wrote:I own it, and played with it the day it came out. Mac 10.12 w/Logic 10.3.1, no issues installing (you must use the new Spitfire Installer v2). I'm honestly underwhelmed, and wondering if it was just me. I did some preset diving and just didn't click with anything other than one preset. I own a bunch of Spitfire libraries and have always been delightfully surprised with them and the quality of their products.

First time I've invested in an expensive mistake. I'm regretting my pre-buy. Really watch the now available videos and see it anything gels with you. I'd be happy to return the license and get Spitfire credit.

Totally agree with you! If I knew I was buying a half assed beta version I would've been $200 better off now!

I don't think they'll attempt a vst instrument again and probably will go back to making Kontakt instruments and sample libraries, which they're very good at. This was obviously above their heads.

Edit: Phobos isn't recalling the patches i made in Ableton live using the VST. When I re-open an arrangement it opens the default patch

MartyC · Post by **MartyC** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:30 am

[quote="bluebox"]I'm an admitted sucker for experimental synths, and the first truly convolution-based example was not about to escape my gaze, so there's that.

Actually, if you own NI Komplete, check out "The Giant" in Kontakt; it revolves around an upright piano whose soundboard is built into the wall of a hotel (I'd hate to be the piano mover). Granted, it focuses on a single instrument, but it relies on a nice library of IRs for the reverb as well as the instrument itself, and the sounds run pretty far afield of an upright piano.

Ulrich Baronowsky is Giant's designer, and Best Service Galaxy-X is a way more ambitious instrument with a number of instruments and a vast assortment of IRs for the sample library as well as the reverb. The IRs are a varied and imaginative bunch, ranging from conventional synths, amp models, and instruments to filter types, noises, and special effects to kittens and bee swarms. It's capable of some beautiful—and some pretty scary sounding stuff

You can find an overview on Youtube: https://youtu.be/Ivdbnw4PU1A

It

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:33 am

spektralisk wrote:Yeah, every voice has its own impulse generated on the fly (so I suspect that impulse response is tuned for each voice) - obviously it's impossible to do in Live just with its Convolution device - you probably could achieve that with max for live though.

It's possible but not easy, you could use a drum or instrument rack with one instrument per note, followed by a convolution reverb with a pitched convolution per instance (so say you wanted the resonance of a guitar over a flute, you'd have a flute sample at C#3 with a guitar sample of C#3 used as an impulse). Plausible if you've got a limited range of notes you're intending to use, not great if you want a 7 octave instrument to jam with although you could just take the resulting sample of each note and make an instrument from that, possibly using multiple samplers in an instrument rack if you wanted to take several samples per note using the CR's modulation.

spektralisk wrote: I'm still curious however how rhythmic stuff in convolution affects the sounds in sources in Phobos - if it's the same kind of results as in Live then I would probably stay happy with Live's Convolution.

As a basic rule of thumb, impulses that are mostly noise create reverb or delay (specifically if the impulse is drums or rhythmic noise), tuned samples result in resonance. I seem to remember that
when the Galaxy X was introduced a few years back, that the impulses were chosen to play well with the sound source as otherwise you get unusable resonances on tuned instruments with tuned impulses.

spektralisk wrote:Otoh I really would like to have the ability to import my own sounds into Phobos - then it would be much more appealing to me (hopefully guys at Spitfire will "open" it for us).

Would be nice but closed systems are generally a much better moneyspinner for the parent company.

ians · Post by **ians** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:30 pm

Must say I'm deeply disappointed so far. Thought it would be right up my street, but after a while everything starts to sound the same no matter what I do with it, lost in a mush of sound. There seems to be a few bugs in there as well although I can pin them down ATM.

I wonder if the sample content is processed some way and that's why it's not possible to load your own.Otherwise it's a major oversight.

i'm going to persevere for a bit, but so far this is my worst impulse buy ever

MartyC · Post by **MartyC** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:53 pm

I haven't spent enough time with it yet. I've barely been through the BT patches, many of which follow similar themes. The majority of what I've played sound like pads and drones superimposed over drum loops; I've yet to find anything with a more keyboard-like attack, but I've yet to tinker with the Envelopes, speaking of which—no filter EGs?

It takes a pretty sizable chunk out of the CPU, too. I think they might need to tighten up their code a bit, too. More to come...

bluebox · Post by **bluebox** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:31 pm

MartyC wrote:Actually, if you own NI Komplete, check out "The Giant" in Kontakt

I do have Komplete, the Giant is interesting but everything is based on the piano as input. That said, you're right, you can do some scary stuff with it. I just have a "tyrrany of too many" piano options for now...

To your other point, convolution synthesis — as implemented in Phobos — provides more options than IR or convolution-style fx in post. If you want something new and interesting to pipe sounds through, Applied Acoustics has a neat filter/delay based on "objects" (thus the name Objeq) that can do convolution stuff. Having three convolvers with four sources and all the routing for it internally certainly makes a difference. Just how much, I'm still finding out.

I've cooled off a little on Phobos, as expected; the honeymoon is over, but I still see enough to warrant plenty of exploration. Especially with creation of pads and "normal" non-cinematic sounds, which this thing does not exactly seem geared for at first blush. My poor 10-year-old Mac Pro is showing its age though. Phobos can be a Diva-like CPU killer with some presets. Thank goodness for the freeze function in Logic. I agree Spitfire needs to work on code efficiency, and/or Apple needs to speed up the modular Mac project!

thesampleguru · Post by **thesampleguru** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:45 pm

Very cool product. Hands down winner

Proxima4 · Post by **Proxima4** » Tue May 07, 2019 8:29 pm

This is quite an old thread so I thought I would add some updated information regarding Phobos because I didn’t notice any update or version info before I purchased just yesterday.

GUI is re-sizeable both as a VST within your DAW and within the Komplete control system GUI as well. Bottom left corner of the frame shows the corner controls to do this with no issues.

I’m running Phobos on an ASUS based system running a Kaby Lake i5 3.2ghz processor, 16gb of RAM and SSD within Ableton the patches in Phobos vary CPU useage between 3 and 16 percent depending on what’s going on, but frankly when you seriously consider what is going on, that’s pretty amazing

Everything installed easily and I have had no issues running it within NI Komplete control except of course there are no NKS patches, which would be brilliant but hey ho.

Regarding the use of Phobos the price is steep at full price, spitfire have a wish list system and it has paid off for my purchase and that’s my suggestion if you think that; “This unique; sample based cinematic/avant-garde instrument” is one that you could use in your music.

It’s intended use is as a spark of creation or completion and layered with other components in your tracks, it’s not an everyday workhorse analogue and your not going to swing from heavy weight Bass patches to gentle sin wave Lead’s, so if that is what you want, then look elsewhere.

I liken it to NI Absynth in some ways and there are factors and limitations in it, that make it both easier and restricting at the same time, however some of those factors of restriction to some like me are liberating, to give an example there is no extra effect section in Phobos, no delay, no frequency shifting, no reverb, no distortion etc, this is because you don’t need to muddy an already complex sound with effects you can easily add within your DAW should you want to.

Also the restriction of samples, is no real restriction at all, if you consider the personality that Phobos has, in fact it’s really nice to feel that coming through even within this realm, it’s unique and thats one of the ways it has been achieved.

My final thoughts are this, I once posted on this forum, my feelings on NI Reaktor and it’s unusual ‘non useable’ sound making machines and sample manglers, until someone responded to my post and educated me that ‘Reaktor is likely to make you screw your face up until such time as your learn to use it in the way it’s been intended’ Phobos is in that realm.

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Wed May 08, 2019 6:33 am

Thanks for the review. Its been on my wishlist for some time...
What are the experiences with Spitfire sales? Is 40% the maximum they give for a single product ever? I don’t have the cash at the moment and I would like to see an update which allows to load my own samples...

martinjuenke · Post by **martinjuenke** » Wed May 08, 2019 7:22 am

I doubt there will be an update with additional functionality like loading your own samples. BT collaborations (see iZotope BreakTweaker and StutterEdit) seem to have a big hype at launching time but then fading away into neglection (and later presumably abandonement) by developers... What ever the reason is...

Proxima4 · Post by **Proxima4** » Fri May 10, 2019 10:11 am

From the loading of samples thing, It’s a shame there are no demo version because Phobos is it’s own beast, I get the feeling that what was being aimed at, is ‘This is a digital instrument’ rather than a funky new sampler, if you catch my drift, there is a special functionality for Roli Seaboard key beds and you know the difference between Seaboards and Keyboards.

It’s fixed in a way the makes you forge sounds with the tools available and it’s not a restriction if your not looking for something else. For everything else there is Kontakt, I’m lucky in the fact; that I have cherry picked my VST for some time now so I don’t need to worry about foundation VST or Hardware in my studio.

I particularly wanted the convolution engine, because “This is the kind of stuff that floats in my brain when I’m dropping off to sleep” normal people count sheep, musicians think about music stuff. Lol

Spitfire Audio & BT present PHOBOS