Minimoog Softsynth Shootout: Diva MiniV3 Monark Legend Minimonsta vs Model D

[nevernamed]

the ob-xa was the ultimate Curtis synth. all the best curtis chips are in there. and thats the one I'd rather see emulated.
the ob-x and sems have a nice clean creamy 12 db, but lack of 24 db make them not very useful to me.

This is software, after all. Why not the 12dB from OB-X and the 24dB Curtis in one emulation? Best of both worlds.

Exactly. I think this is why an Oberheim mashup sounds very appealing.

The thing with that is the mash up almost always results in some kind of compromise. When you start talking about these kind of hybrid designs based on the idea of "take best bits from this that and the other thing then put them together in one" it hardly ever ends up being a better instrument than each of the instruments that inspired the hybrid design respectively. It usually ends up being a different instrument. Not worse but if you wanted a OBX only for example a hybrid like this may not do it as well as a dedicated OBX emulation.

[egbert101]

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[nevernamed]

The thing with that is the mash up almost always results in some kind of compromise. When you start talking about these kind of hybrid designs based on the idea of "take best bits from this that and the other thing then put them together in one" it hardly ever ends up being a better instrument than each of the instruments that inspired the hybrid design respectively. It usually ends up being a different instrument. Not worse but if you wanted a OBX only for example a hybrid like this may not do it as well as a dedicated OBX emulation.

Yeah well, I actually agree with you in most cases. Authenticity is a high priority, but I also have a lot of trust in Urs, because I think he got Diva mostly right (hehe update coming in future), and I think Repro-5 is also done right. Same also applies to GForce's Oddity2, which has three revisions of filters all selectable in one unit.

Yeah the Diva is very cool but it's still a different instrument in some cases than those that inspired it. If you wanted an OBX type patch you'd still have to contend with Moog oscillators or Jupiter envelopes or vice versa etc etc. As well as different parameter ranges etc. A good hardware example of what I'm talking about is the polarizing Andromeda. The guiding principle there was "lets take best bits of this synth and that synth" and it still kind of ended up in a third territory. The Oddity arguably escapes that "best bits of a bunch of synths" category though. All of the rest of the synth is still Odyssey so there is some consistency/continuity there. There is even a hardware version now with all three filters rolled into one I believe (the new Korg thing). And the Repro is of course a one-to-one emulation as well so not strictly in that category either. I'm not against these ideas but historically this approach has yielded a different instrument typically; with overlap of course but still different.

[DuX]

IMO anyway a huge portion of the Oberheim sound is the filters. There's a cream to them that I don't hear in Moog or Sequential etc. synths. Playing pads on the Oberheim Xpander just sounds to me better than Sequential etc.

Amen to that. Even the pads made with Arturia Matrix-12V sound gorgeous, although it really is not so faithful emulation and lacks "life" as many other VSTis.

You can give them some life with outboard processing, but it's the source of the sound that matters the most. That's why I'm not getting rid of my hw synths and samplers no matter what.

[olikana]

The thing with that is the mash up almost always results in some kind of compromise. When you start talking about these kind of hybrid designs based on the idea of "take best bits from this that and the other thing then put them together in one" it hardly ever ends up being a better instrument than each of the instruments that inspired the hybrid design respectively. It usually ends up being a different instrument. Not worse but if you wanted a OBX only for example a hybrid like this may not do it as well as a dedicated OBX emulation.

Yeah well, I actually agree with you in most cases. Authenticity is a high priority, but I also have a lot of trust in Urs, because I think he got Diva mostly right (hehe update coming in future), and I think Repro-5 is also done right. Same also applies to GForce's Oddity2, which has three revisions of filters all selectable in one unit.

Yeah the Diva is very cool but it's still a different instrument in some cases than those that inspired it. If you wanted an OBX type patch you'd still have to contend with Moog oscillators or Jupiter envelopes or vice versa etc etc. As well as different parameter ranges etc. A good hardware example of what I'm talking about is the polarizing Andromeda. The guiding principle there was "lets take best bits of this synth and that synth" and it still kind of ended up in a third territory. The Oddity arguably escapes that "best bits of a bunch of synths" category though. All of the rest of the synth is still Odyssey so there is some consistency/continuity there. There is even a hardware version now with all three filters rolled into one I believe (the new Korg thing). And the Repro is of course a one-to-one emulation as well so not strictly in that category either. I'm not against these ideas but historically this approach has yielded a different instrument typically; with overlap of course but still different.

the reason why Diva fell short as a minimoog is that not everything was modelled accurately, starting from the oscillators , but the concept IMO remains valid and nothing for me would be more valuable than a Diva 2.0 with revised modules and adding all modules from Re-Pro , Cat, polivoks or what else they're modelling now.
if in Diva 2 you was allowed to select re-pro oscillators, re-pro 1filter , re-pro envelopes, re-pro vca I bet it would sound identical to re-pro 1.
another dream synth I would like to see is the Legend XT. with osc Pitch Env, PWM, sync, 1 or more dedicated LFOs, etc. I already setup the Legend with Bitwig modulators with 1 extra LFO and Pitch Env...and I it doesn't compromise the sound or instrument in any way but just expands the use.
oh and I don't mind a few effects integrated. the way u-he did it with re-pro is really cool. but only worth it if the integrated effects are of high quality, if not it just wastes space.

[egbert101]

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[chk071]

IMO anyway a huge portion of the Oberheim sound is the filters. There's a cream to them that I don't hear in Moog or Sequential etc. synths. Playing pads on the Oberheim Xpander just sounds to me better than Sequential etc.

I don't quite agree about Moog synths not being creamy, but, Dave Smith's synths are really overrated for me. I happened to listen to a Pro-1 demo the other day, and really disliked it. Sounds gnarly, dirty, and bland. I think i heard some Prohet-6 stuff i liked though. But his older synths, i don't know... not really my cup of tea.

[egbert101]

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[Ingonator]

the reason why Diva fell short as a minimoog is that not everything was modelled accurately, starting from the oscillators , but the concept IMO remains valid [...]

Just out of interest ... what is not modelled accurately in the oscillators?

A few things that are differnt in Diva to the socillators of the original Minimoog Model D:
- Diva has Osc Sync, the original Mini not
- Diva has morphable waveshapes, the Mini has fixed waveforms
- In Diva the FM is from Osc 1 to Ocs2+3, not from Osc 3 to SOcs 1+2 like in the Mini
- Using the Noise source or a mix of the Noise and the Osc for FM in Diva is "hidden" at the "Modifications" page at "Noise & Dual VCO MIx". This is easy to overlook there (FWIW i had to search a bit for it too)
- OSc 3 could not be used in "Lo" mode for using it as a LFO like in the Mini. Instead Diva has a dedicated LFO.

Concerning wavehapes for the fixed "Sharktooth" (Sawtooth + Triangle mix) and the two Pulse waveforms in the Minimoog Model D with the morphable waveshapes in Diva you have to find the correct and/or corresponding position/shape yourself.

Osc Sync and morphable waveshapes seem to be features of the newer Moog synths. The Moog Slim Phatty that i had until 2015 had morphable shapes and Sync too. IMO sound wise the The Legend plugin is a better replacement for the original Minimoog as the Slim Phatty was. The engine of the Phatty seemed to be closer to a Moog Prodigy that had Osc Sync and two Oscs (opposing to 3 in a Mini) too.

Of course those features like Osc Sync and morphable shapes could be very useful but it's not what was found in the original Minimoog. Diva is still great for Moog sounds and lots of other stuff due to the different modules included but if i need a proper Minimoog emulation i normally use The Legend instead (which has some additional advanced features too if needed...).

[Urs]

The one thing that's different is that in a Minimoog you can fine tune the FM/FilterFM master (VCO3). As in Diva this is Osc1, and Osc1 has no fine tune knob, one can't do that. It's a conceptual oversight, not a bug in the models per sé. One can still do FM and FilterFM at exceptional quality, and for most purposes, i.e. when VCO3 of a Minimoog is switched to LoFreq mode, Diva offers LFOs instead. I guess that's why it took 6 years until somebody realized.

[Urs]

The thing with that is the mash up almost always results in some kind of compromise.

I'm only interested in a mash up of the old Oberheims, that is, OB-X and older. They change more in concept than in actual parts or architecture. I'd merely add a novel concept, one that is only possible in software, but otherwise stick to the parts.

That said, we've enslaved ourselves to accuracy for over a year when we did Repro-1/5, we would certainly prefer to add our own touches to anything new. As I said elsewhere, we're moving from "accuracy" to "interpretation" when we believe we can offer something better.

[egbert101]

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[egbert101]

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[DuX]

That said, we've enslaved ourselves to accuracy for over a year when we did Repro-1/5, we would certainly prefer to add our own touches to anything new. As I said elsewhere, we're moving from "accuracy" to "interpretation" when we believe we can offer something better.

When recreating an accurate emulation of a vintage synth I really appreciate to have extended features so that designing sounds can go beyond the original. Of course, I'm not talking about just adding reverb/delay/chorus FX... for me those are completely unnecessary, but I don't mind them, especially when there's global and "sticky" on/off switch for them.

Anyway, extending the synthesis features and moving from "accuracy" to "interpretation"... I mean why not? It's software and it's easier to add features to an already proven concept and it makes an old vintage [beaten to death ] more interesting to play with.

[nevernamed]

The thing with that is the mash up almost always results in some kind of compromise.

I'm only interested in a mash up of the old Oberheims, that is, OB-X and older. They change more in concept than in actual parts or architecture. I'd merely add a novel concept, one that is only possible in software, but otherwise stick to the parts.

That said, we've enslaved ourselves to accuracy for over a year when we did Repro-1/5, we would certainly prefer to add our own touches to anything new. As I said elsewhere, we're moving from "accuracy" to "interpretation" when we believe we can offer something better.

Sure and within those parameters it may work. OBx and older means what? The SEM and OBx mainly. Or was there anything else? Those two are fairly similar in parts and architecture except that the SEM is still a bunch of mono synths with a dedicated control surface. There is something odd about these two however. They don't sound the same. Not sure what would account for that since they use similar parts.