Overestimated synths?

[EnGee]

I see, you're mad because you learned something.

Learned something from 'you'? Don't be silly!
I have never learnt something useful from you! All you write is about your self esteem and the importance of the filter, then keep repeating What can I learn from that?!

Apparently you learned that all of the algorithms are available as presets even though it wasn't intended that way. Why would you suggest that she create them otherwise? Don't worry, nobody else noticed that you were butthurt over something so silly. It's just between us.

BTW: If you don't think the filter is important, then go ahead and try your hand at the two simple challenges that I posted earlier. There are more where those came from. Oh, or perhaps NI hires people who don't know what they're doing to create presets and they only use filters because that's all they know?

Do you think that's it? Or maybe, just maybe, if you're stuck up John Chowning's ass that maybe you missed a memo or two?

First there is no such a preset! What I did is just one minute to modify the preset she chose (which was the first one). It is much easier than going to all those 2c4m presets (which no one applied ). So, stop being clever!

Second, I know the importance of the filter, but to ignore other synthesis (FM, PD and Additive) just because originally they ignored 'your' filter, doesn't make them crap! You can add the filter to them but it is additional for such syntheses. The filter is as important (in subtractive synthesis) as the oscillator. Saying the filter is important is meaningless!

Third, you are boring and full of yourself! I don't like to waste my time responding to you!

[ghettosynth]

But this algo is easy to do in FM8! Maybe you can do all of them (the 32 algorithms of DX7) and save them for easy future recall.

All 32 of them are already in there and saved as presets. The only thing that's necessary is to RTFM.

Yes, I see!
Your operators, Mister Filter, need to be enabled all of them

I don't have a license to use it. This is why. I don't like it. For example, I used Absynth for YEARS and never read the f**king manual.

You can make whatever excuses you want. I'm not faulting you for not knowing, I'm faulting you having zero humility about something that you don't know jack shit about.

That's me. I don't think I'm clever in this way. AND, I actually read the part of the manual, 4.2.6 - FM Matrix.

I don't see it. It's simply a different UI. The manual is shit for this.

The manual is dead easy, if you understand FM. What was that below about self-critique? At what point are you going to self-critique your knowledge of FM? You have no knowledge of it as it's been used for the last two decades in commercial instruments so shouldn't that at some point signal to you that your POV is out of date? Shouldn't your reluctance to read books and understand the nature of a thing as described by the people who created it be some flag to you that maybe your perception isn't correct?

Anyway...

when you rudely...

Here, dig some backstory. Following years of this kind of ad hom:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=356388

LOL! I knew it! You're still butthurt over the fact that I don't like your music. Grow up already. BTW: That's not an ad-hominem argument, it can't be, because it's just an opinion about your music, there is no claim there that I'm substantiating by referring to your character, or lack thereof. Ad hominem is an often fallacious argument strategy, not simply negativity that you don't agree with.

Yes, intellectual laziness. People that never self-critique get stuck in their limited paradigm.

Yeah, and that's not the first irony meter that you owe me. Now, about those sluggish filters and your experience, or lack thereof, or whatever it is we were talking about.

[EnGee]

I don't have a license to use it. This is why. I don't like it. For example, I used Absynth for YEARS and never read the f**king manual. There's the FM8 UI. There's the DX7 manual. Which I never saw before today. It isn't what I want to work with. That's me. I don't guess I'm clever enough to reimagine the FM8 Graphics into the actual DX7 32 algorithms.
AND, I actually read the part of the manual, 4.2.6 - FM Matrix. I don't see it. It's simply a different UI. The manual is shit for this. As I said, I'm good with being too stupid for it. Really.

Yes, the matrix has different workflow. IMO, it has a genius design because you have the freedom to do your own algos and they can be simple or complex algos. Sytrus and other FM synths have a matrix as well, but the one in FM8 is very clear to the eye.

If you have experience with the DX7, I find it pity to not use FM8, because it is easy for you to transfer your knowledge and experience with the DX7 (you can of course import DX7 presets).

Anyhow (as you said) ... I'm out of this thread.

[jancivil]

I'm not seeing it. I'm attached to the modus operandi I guess, and I guess I'm not clever like that.
I have a demo of FM8, I haven't bought a license and this is why I won't be.
Thanks for trying.

Maybe like this:

DX_Algo01.JPG

FM8 is from my favourite synths. It is really a great synth. IMO, it worth the investment to learn it

Anyway, if you want a good emulation of DX7 algos, then try the free one Dexed. It is really good, but I prefer the FM8 interface to be honest.

Yeah, I downloaded that and here's another interface that isn't it. And it's kind of cluttered with too many distractions for me.
I'm ok, thanks. But there are so many things to explore that I do have full access to.

I'm sure it's a really powerful synth, because it's a really powerful paradigm. The DX7 suffered from being 14-bit and limited velocity, 1-100. I was enthusiastic about this thing for yrs, and demo it occasionally to see if I can get out of myself and get with it. not so much yet

[ghettosynth]

I see, you're mad because you learned something.

Learned something from 'you'? Don't be silly!
I have never learnt something useful from you! All you write is about your self esteem and the importance of the filter, then keep repeating What can I learn from that?!

Apparently you learned that all of the algorithms are available as presets even though it wasn't intended that way. Why would you suggest that she create them otherwise? Don't worry, nobody else noticed that you were butthurt over something so silly. It's just between us.

BTW: If you don't think the filter is important, then go ahead and try your hand at the two simple challenges that I posted earlier. There are more where those came from. Oh, or perhaps NI hires people who don't know what they're doing to create presets and they only use filters because that's all they know?

Do you think that's it? Or maybe, just maybe, if you're stuck up John Chowning's ass that maybe you missed a memo or two?

First there is no such a preset! What I did is just one minute to modify the preset she chose (which was the first one). It is much easier than going to all those 2c4m presets (which no one applied ). So, stop being clever!

Again, you miss the point. You told her to create the presets, that's not necessary because all of the presets are in there. It says so in the manual. So again, you learn from me, but this time it took two posts for you to finally realize it.

Second, I know the importance of the filter, but to ignore other synthesis (FM, PD and Additive) just because originally they ignored 'your' filter, doesn't make them crap!

I didn't say the DX7 was crap, so perhaps you could learn now from me how to respond to an argument. The lesson starts with reading the words that are written and not making things up in your mind.

You can add the filter to them but it is additional for such syntheses. The filter is as important (in subtractive synthesis) as the oscillator. Saying the filter is important is meaningless!

Again, I've said much more than that, but, it seems that you aren't able to understand my words. Again, there are challenges, are they too difficult for you? Off the cuff, the filter adds about as much to FM as, for example, the multimode nature of the M12 filter adds to it beyond the standard lowpass filters. I could probably quantify this statement by counting patches.

Third, you are boring and full of yourself! I don't like to waste my time responding to you!

So many irony meters today! Of course I'm boring, you aren't able to understand the words that I write. It's like a child reading the DSM, it's going to be so boring.

[jancivil]

I've looked at FM8 numerous times. There are no such 32 DX7 algorithms as presets, sez I.

If you can demonstrate that, make us enough screenshots so we trust that the rest must be there too, do that.
It seems like you're just ready to lie about it. Which would be right weird. Normally.

[ghettosynth]

The DX7 suffered from being 14-bit and limited velocity, 1-100. I was enthusiastic about this thing for yrs, and demo it occasionally to see if I can get out of myself and get with it. not so much yet

Seriously? You go on for pages about filters and then cite 14-bit and velocity limitations? You do realize that the velocity limitation was just a midi scaling issue and was easily dealt with in a sequencer, right?

What does that actually mean in terms of sound? What does 14-bit do to make the DX7 so much less than the DX7-2, which, BTW, does not suffer from that limitation so it was hardly necessary to wait for years for FM8.

[jancivil]

Maybe like this:

DX_Algo01.jpg

I can see that. So you create these yourself with a little bit of understanding.
That's what I always imagined but I'd prefer not. I just want it made easy as it was in the first place.
I don't think anyone has built it 'right'.

Thanks.

[ghettosynth]

I've looked at FM8 numerous times. There are no such 32 DX7 algorithms as presets, sez I.

If you can demonstrate that, make us enough screenshots so we trust that the rest must be there too, do that.
It seems like you're just ready to lie about it. Which would be right weird. Normally.

It's in the manual, which is online. So feel free to check for yourself. There are, in fact, 64 presets in total including all 32 from the DX7. You not being able to find it is no evidence that it isn't there. You've resoundly demonstrated your incompetence with FM8 in this thread. If you want me to tutor you, I get paid for that, and even though that isn't my normal line of work, I still expect my normal contractual rate, which I'm pretty sure that you can't afford.

[ghettosynth]

Maybe like this:

DX_Algo01.jpg

I can see that. So you create these yourself with a little bit of understanding.
That's what I always imagined but I'd prefer not. I just want it made easy as it was in the first place.

OMG you are f**king hilarious? Seriously, "a little bit of understanding", yes, it involves "click and drag" and knowing what FM is all about, and reading four sentences in the manual. I guess that is a "little bit of understanding"

I don't think anyone has built it 'right'.

Oh? What would you change?

[jancivil]

The DX7 suffered from being 14-bit and limited velocity, 1-100. I was enthusiastic about this thing for yrs, and demo it occasionally to see if I can get out of myself and get with it. not so much yet

Seriously? You go on for pages about filters and then cite 14-bit and velocity limitations? You do realize that the velocity limitation was just a midi scaling issue and was easily dealt with in a sequencer, right?

What does that actually mean in terms of sound? What does 14-bit do to make the DX7 so much less than the DX7-2, which, BTW, does not suffer from that limitation so it was hardly necessary to wait for years for FM8.

I went on for pages about filters? I indicated that I had no interest in them for this.

I didn't wait for anything. I worked with the original DX7 from, it looks like 1984 as I found the history of PFS doing shows with it that year and I was the chef for it, through fall 1987. And I was clear out of that picture at that point. Then, I bought one at a pawnshop ca 2003 and it seemed a little dull. Much later I read about those things.

As a MIDI controller, 100 means rescaling whatever you're sending to. It also means that to use the DX7's own sounds using an external controller or sequencer, the velocity values will have to be rescaled before input to the DX7.

[ghettosynth]

The DX7 suffered from being 14-bit and limited velocity, 1-100. I was enthusiastic about this thing for yrs, and demo it occasionally to see if I can get out of myself and get with it. not so much yet

Seriously? You go on for pages about filters and then cite 14-bit and velocity limitations? You do realize that the velocity limitation was just a midi scaling issue and was easily dealt with in a sequencer, right?

What does that actually mean in terms of sound? What does 14-bit do to make the DX7 so much less than the DX7-2, which, BTW, does not suffer from that limitation so it was hardly necessary to wait for years for FM8.

I went on for pages about filters? I indicated that I had no interest in them for this.

Are you really that dense, You want on for pages about my opinion on filters. Filters add far more to FM than the 2 bits in a DAC.

I didn't wait for anything. I worked with the original DX7 from, it looks like 1984 as I found the history of PFS doing shows with it that year and I was the chef for it, through fall 1987. And I was clear out of that picture at that point. Then, I bought one at a pawnshop ca 2003 and it seemed a little dull. Much later I read about those things.

As a MIDI controller, 100 means rescaling whatever you're sending to. It also means that to use the DX7's own sounds using an external controller or sequencer, the velocity values will have to be rescaled before input to the DX7.

Yes, that's trivial, especially in 2003. I dealt with it rather easily in the mid 90s with cakewalk. It's in no way a serious limitation of the instrument. Nor is the 14 bit aspect, really. You found it dull says nothing. Did it ever occur to you that you were the problem in that?

Since you found out later, though, the truth is, you really don't know? Reading about it online from lots of other non-technical people who blame the DAC isn't really evidence of anything. You had nothing else to compare it with that wasn't dull and also Yamaha FM.

[ghettosynth]

Sure, John Chowning is no genius. Tell us all about your estimations some more again.

I never said that John Chowning, or anyone for that matter, is or isn't a genius. I said that I wasn't interested in your assessment. Whether he is or isn't, isn't relevant, you aren't qualified to make such an assessment, and frankly, I think that the label is rather meaningless. Moreover, in effect, it's specious reasoning, it's an appeal to authority. The argument isn't about his ability, it's about his work in time and commercial products derived from that work. If anyone could be argued to be a genius it's Einstein, and much of his work in later life is not considered as such.

Seriously, you don't know what you don't know.

Back on topic:

Yamaha VL1

[Hink]

Sure, John Chowning is no genius. Tell us all about your estimations some more again.

Back on topic:

Yamaha VL1

please and thank you

[aMUSEd]

I've looked at FM8 numerous times. There are no such 32 DX7 algorithms as presets, sez I.

They are in the dropdown above the matrix in expert view (64 actually)