Is plugin market going down?

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Richard_Synapse wrote:This is why 70-90% off deals are so common for high-end plugins.
In my opinion "high-end plug-ins" often enough equal "scam". With hardware I can easily see how hand made products with selected parts can become expensive for a reason. With "high end EQs" which are based on f**king biquad formulas I can't. It comes at no surprise that these plug-ins combine the one scam with another, in that they are marketed as more valuable than they are, and even discounted they are probably overpriced. To add another axis, sometimes the same plug-in gets repackaged with a different UI and a different name. Does that sound 3D? - Yes it does!

Surely, these plug-ins still do their job. But the amount of money that is drained from the market and thus from actually innovative developers is ridiculous. But hey, it's obviously not that much of a sustainable model. These shareholder value driven mechanics equal "how fast can we drive into that wall", where all creativity is put into efforts to move that wall further away. Until they can't.

/rant

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Economics are almost never pretty, and sad states of affairs are common.
Fortunately, the same system that creates such conditions, also leaves
room for true innovators and dedicated craftsmen to succeed. This will
always be the case.

Unfortunately, I would have to say: that would be the hard way to do it.

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1 Timothy 6:9

'But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.'

I guess possession is as old as human existence. Especially when things are promised as 'try out.' Or even better: for 'free.'
I never make mistakes; I just blame others.

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SparkySpark wrote:
camsr wrote:The amount of sales and the percentage of the discounts is strange to me. I hate to say it devalues the product, I'm probably wrong saying that, but it's like a meme around here to just wait until any plugin has a sale.
Agree totally with your first sentences. Today's situation doesn't really benefit anyone. Perhaps a better approach would be this:

Studios/"rich artists": pay 100%
Schools: pay 75%
Private persons/hobbyists: pay very little (say 10-20 bucks).

That way we would get rid of the sales hysteria of Waves and others, and everyone would make money. At the same time, we would get rid of warez (the one who wouldn't pay 10 dollars for a plug and go for a cracked version would never be a buyer anyway).
The problem with market segment based pricing is that it's always going to be a challenge preventing one segment from masquerading as another. What you are describing is really all that things like "education pricing" are all about. Similarly, rotating sales are also a way of managing that kind of pricing. Pros can't afford to wait for a sale, so, most of your sales will be to price conscious hobbyists.

In an ideal world, you will charge everyone the maximum amount that they would be willing to pay for a product and you would sell to everyone whose value of the product was greater than your costs (including transaction cost). That's just not practical.

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pekbro wrote:Steam is a very good example of effective revolving sales tactics. They have marketing experts and psychologists on staff to figure it all out. They don't mess around. That's just one reason they can claim a whopping 60 million user accounts or something.
Don't want to derail this thread too much, but Steam operates in a very different environment. Essentially without the sales, Steam is more expensive than brick&mortar. So they need the sales to shift units, while they have to call them sales so that brick&mortar stores don't boycott games that use Steam.

Anyway, I don't think Steam is a meaningful comparison in this context.

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I think the market it's easier than this, or you go for the pro, or you go for the consumer market.

The pro is a small market that wants the best quality and like Giancarlo said it's very picky about the price it pays, you also have to provide a product that really innovative and unique (like Acustica does)

If you don't have that unique product you have to go for the consumer market which is used to revolving sales and expect "to make the deal" think like you are selling TVs or smartphones, every now and then there is a sale on that product and it has to be a "limited sale" to create the sense of urgency and not to miss the deal.
Also ideally the price should fall in the "impulse buying" category so that that sense of urgency is reinforced by the low price.
To sustain this model you have to make a lot of sales keeping the costs as low as possible.
This in the software industry in 2017 is very easy since there is an abundance of free (often BSD licensed) libraries ready to be used to shape a unique product.

The other thing you can do if you aim to the pro market is to create a "pro" brand. Neve and Universal audio keep on selling for high prices because of the "pro" brand they have not because of their excellent and exclusive products (that has been cloned a tons of times and can be bought often for half the price).

My 2c
Saverio

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Can't remember I've ever seen a Sylenth1 ad though.
I never make mistakes; I just blame others.

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Rappo Clappo wrote:Can't remember I've ever seen a Sylenth1 ad though.
How much do you reckon is its market share among paying customers?

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Urs wrote:
Rappo Clappo wrote:Can't remember I've ever seen a Sylenth1 ad though.
How much do you reckon is its market share among paying customers?
Apparently high enough. Afaik they do give a discount so now and then. And that's about it.
I never make mistakes; I just blame others.

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Rappo Clappo wrote:Apparently high enough.
It's apparently a popular product. But with all those scandals of hip producers, disc jockeys and UI designers using it cracked, I'm not sure if financial success is as apparent as its perceived market share. But I disgress. I'm just not sure Sylenth1 is a good example for anything related to this market.

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Urs wrote:
Rappo Clappo wrote:Can't remember I've ever seen a Sylenth1 ad though.
How much do you reckon is its market share among paying customers?
Question hints that there are more "illegal" customers among the Sylenth1 users than other softsynths.
Don't know about that, but defining the market share in this area is hard enough. Who knows the total market size?
My guess is, among those who have purchased,
Of EDM oriented softsynth users, 30-40%?
Of all softsynth users, 4 %?

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Harry_HH wrote:Who knows the total market size?
Very complicated. If I go by the numbers I sometimes hear about some hip products, u-he is barely alive. But then reports from our resellers put us in the top spot here and there. Supposedly we are among the 10-20 biggest companies on ShareIt overall, with only one, maybe two other audio plug-in companies in their top 200. So either there's a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration of sales numbers, or the market is so much bigger, we don't need to worry.

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Urs, I don't know your company size, but we are in the 100K/year range and having seen financial statements from other big plugin company i can definitely say that we have a huge margin of growth :D

So probably the market is still very large but i think it's changing and we need to create the products for this new market.

Saverio

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Urs wrote:
Rappo Clappo wrote:Apparently high enough.
It's apparently a popular product. But with all those scandals of hip producers, disc jockeys and UI designers using it cracked, I'm not sure if financial success is as apparent as its perceived market share. But I disgress. I'm just not sure Sylenth1 is a good example for anything related to this market.
I concur. It's the exception which made the rule though. However, warez are also a tool for free advertising.
Whether one likes it or not. It happens in every business. In some way. Criminals will find that way.
I never make mistakes; I just blame others.

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Urs wrote:With hardware I can easily see how hand made products with selected parts can become expensive for a reason. With "high end EQs" which are based on f**king biquad formulas I can't.
Can this be understood like "we at U-He are going to make a real high end EQ just to set a new standard"? :tu:
HoRNet wrote:and we need to create the products for this new market.
Will Hornet release a pluginhost for Hornet plugins like Meldas MXXX?

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