What Key is this riff?

[theEmbark]

Hey guys,
Can someone help me ID this key? It's noted as C but doesn't sound like C to me - I hear an E and a Bb in there. Still trying to piece it together but a fresh set of ears would be nice. I can't tell if it was down tuned during the mastering process or if it's the FX or what.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwM1tX ... sp=sharing

Thanks,
Kevin

[someone called simon]

Not enough context. I hear A major (plus I hear an added 9 which sounds like a common guitar variant of that chord, with the top 2 strings open). Then a C# major and D#/Eb Major, though the major tonalities might just be harmonics, and the player might just be playing root and 5th 'power chords'. Either case, those chords don't belong by default to any standard key. If there was more context you might be able to tell which key, and which chords are being borrowed from some other key. C# might make most sense as D# and A could be used quite sensibly in such a context (say C#, D#, F#, A, C#). But the way the riff sounds, without context, doesn't make my ear jump to that conclusion, due the the first chord being the A.

[waltercruz]

I would say E.

Chord sequence:
A (add9) C#m B/D#

But as simon said, more context is needed.

[someone called simon]

I would say E.

Chord sequence:
A (add9) C#m B/D#

But as simon said, more context is needed.

That third chord has a Bb in it though, unless it's an unintended harmonic, so doesn't sound like an inversion of a B chord to me. I am only listening on laptop speakers...

[theEmbark]

Thanks guys,

I don't own the song so didn't want to post anything other then the chorus riff. That being said the download is public domain - https://www.crossroads.net/worshiptraining/audition click on electric guitar and you'll get the chord chart and the song. Point being the chord chart and the song seem to be in different keys.

[someone called simon]

I downloaded it, finally twigged the solo guitar channel was on the left... initially didn't hear the guitar playing solo anywhere.

The music is in C#m, the chord is indeed a B with a D# bass as waltercruz said. The other instruments drown out the dissonant note that you can hear when the guitar track is soloed. So it is an A add 9 chord followed by a C# power chord then D# power chord. On that D# Chord The dissonant harmonics (Bb and F) come through quite strongly due to the distortion. What I mean is that they are dissonant in the key of the song, but they are of course quite consonant with the D# note. The most audible harmonic of a note give you a major chord, basically.)
The guitarist might be playing the Bb note as part of the D# power chord, even though it's note a note from the C#m key. Guitarists often do dumb things like that, I know, I am one

[theEmbark]

I downloaded it, finally twigged the solo guitar channel was on the left... initially didn't hear the guitar playing solo anywhere.

The music is in C#m, the chord is indeed a B with a D# bass as waltercruz said. The other instruments drown out the dissonant note that you can hear when the guitar track is soloed. So it is an A add 9 chord followed by a C# power chord then D# power chord. On that D# Chord The dissonant harmonics (Bb and F) come through quite strongly due to the distortion. What I mean is that they are dissonant in the key of the song, but they are of course quite consonant with the D# note. The most audible harmonic of a note give you a major chord, basically.)
The guitarist might be playing the Bb note as part of the D# power chord, even though it's note a note from the C#m key. Guitarists often do dumb things like that, I know, I am one

Somehow I missed your post Simon,

But thanks for giving this a closer look and yeah sorry about that, it's a practice track so it's panned left right now. And that makes sense - I was confused by the sheet music because I couldn't hear C Major anywhere in the song but definitely get A5, C#5, B5 for the verse just alternating root and the 5th.

My ears are to that point where I know when something sounds wrong but not quite far enough to pick out and put together that chorus for some reason. My understanding was it was either in C or E major so I think I let that get to my head . Because that little intro ditti is definitely not in E .

I guess you could stretch the theory to say its in the key of E played in the 6th mode?

Anyways much appreciated!
Kevin

[jancivil]

I see 'dissonances' tied to 'harmonics' and that looks like the problem of playing minor chords with heavy amplifier distortion. C# is going to produce fifth harmonic before too long, E# (F, Bb, while stating C#, G# D#? Come on.). Fifths of chords - NB: the A# is already present with a D# root - will produce your first 5 to 7 harmonics especially if the notes are low enough to perceive the particularity of the harmonic, as well.

The keys E major and C# minor both have 4 sharps.

But distortion is the reason for 'power chords' where you don't articulate a 3rd.

[theEmbark]

Thank you all for your help on this,

I landed on E major as the key that seems to work best with my thinking/playing.

I am having some trouble though on the chorus. I think all the fuzz is throwing me off. I am hearing A C#m and then I think it's going to an E but it's not sounding quite right.

The chord chart I have shows A C#m E E/Ab
But I don't hear all those chords. At least not thru the fuzz. I'm having trouble hearing an E or even an inversion. I hear the root but almost sounds like a B/E or something.

Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Kevin

[jancivil]

I didn't bother with hearing this the first time because it had to be downloaded to hear it, here.
This is a 4-second file? It's power chords: A, C#, D#. That's literally all that's there in the file I downloaded.

Key in a normal sense is problematic because the power chord strongly suggests a fifth partial via distortion: C# gives E#, D# gives Fx which taken altogether exceeds a scale, key or mode. IE: that isn't worth worrying about, there is no use. (Beyond determining _which is 'I'_ which is probably A.)

[theEmbark]

I didn't bother with hearing this the first time because it had to be downloaded to hear it, here.
This is a 4-second file? It's power chords: A, C#, D#. That's literally all that's there in the file I downloaded.

Key in a normal sense is problematic because the power chord strongly suggests a fifth partial via distortion: C# gives E#, D# gives Fx which taken altogether exceeds a scale, key or mode. IE: that isn't worth worrying about, there is no use. (Beyond determining _which is 'I'_ which is probably A.)

Hey Jancivil,

The full song is here, https://www.crossroads.net/worshiptraining/audition just click electric guitar. It also has a chord sheet with it. I don't own the rights so didn't want to post the whole song but I can link to it since that's public domain.

I agree that it's really difficult to tell what's being played with the distortion and fuzz. I could definitely play an E there but trying to get closer to the note being played. Just thought I'd see what others ears heard. Since its an original piece there's no music out there other then what they posted on the site

Thanks,
Kevin

Edit: that's the first time I've seen the sheet music in the right key. I can hear that D# slide to E. And then sounds like it just hangs on that E/G# for a second.

[jancivil]

There was nothing difficult at all in the three chords I heard. I had to check the first one and find out A, but it very clearly goes up a major third then a whole tone and very clearly power chords.

Yeah, the chorus I can verify absolutely is A C# D# (didn't get to the E but nothing at all surprising there), but power chords, don't bother with thirds (Abstracted in the short file. There seems to be other information in the song as a group. It's not a good mix, is it.).

The first harmony of the jangly guitar is E. As pertinent to the verse it's IV, but it kind of seems like it's in E there.

IE: when it does A to C# that's bVII II. The guitar does not appear to bother [with much] past root and fifth as far as I'm going to go with this [I don't care for this so it's work to me and I ain't gettin' paid. ]. Hopefully that will set you straighter than what you're seeing here so far, which is for one thing more complicated than the reality of it.
It's harmonically pretty naive. It meanders a bit as far as tonal center but the verse is 'in B'. Not 'B Major', nor 'B minor' really, but B is its center so far.

[theEmbark]

Thanks Jancivil,

Really appreciate your feedback and definitely not trying to put you to work!

It's kind of a funky song in the way it flows thru the key of B as you put it. Which I think is why I be felt weird when I'm playing it. My ears are still developing and while the written theory (in the chord chart) supplies the key of E as the root my ears don't identify the same way.

I think the lesson learned here is to trust my ears. I had it right in the beginning and tried to change it to the sheet music and when I couldn't get it to sound right I just started inverted the chords etc.

I do really appreciate the feedback and collaboration I'm on summer break and most my musician friends are away so figured KVR was a good place!

Thanks,
Kevin

[jancivil]

I think the lesson learned here is to trust my ears. I had it right in the beginning and tried to change it to the sheet music and when I couldn't get it to sound right I just started inverted the chords etc.

Quite right, kind of what I was driving at.