Syntronik [update March 2018: New T-03 Bonus Content & 4-for-1 bass synth promo] available

[Elektronisch]

Also, regarding the "sample based synths are not synths" people, I am (genuinely) curious where you see the delineation between "synth" and "not synth". Note I am not trying to be provocative - just interested in how each component of a synth is defined and whether there is a commonly agreed point of division between the two. I would assume that analog oscillators are beyond question in terms of their general "synthiness". What about examples such as (off the top of my head) - JP8000, Largo/Blofeld, Serum, Falcon? Also, I would be interested to hear why you don't like sample-based/romplers. In practical terms, aside from the obvious, what impediments do sample based synths suffer from that are not an issue with standard oscillator based synths? Anyway, just interested...

Here is the difference:

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples, unless IK gives more insight. But seeing there is no ability to tweak oscillator like change the waveshape and other common stuff i do not believe there is any synthesis going.

On the other hand there are great example synths that can combine sampled content and give ability to tweak for ex Omnisphere, Harmor, Form and more.

[Cinebient]

Also, regarding the "sample based synths are not synths" people, I am (genuinely) curious where you see the delineation between "synth" and "not synth". Note I am not trying to be provocative - just interested in how each component of a synth is defined and whether there is a commonly agreed point of division between the two. I would assume that analog oscillators are beyond question in terms of their general "synthiness". What about examples such as (off the top of my head) - JP8000, Largo/Blofeld, Serum, Falcon? Also, I would be interested to hear why you don't like sample-based/romplers. In practical terms, aside from the obvious, what impediments do sample based synths suffer from that are not an issue with standard oscillator based synths? Anyway, just interested...

Here is the difference:

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples, unless IK gives more insight. But seeing there is no ability to tweak oscillator like change the waveshape and other common stuff i do not believe there is any synthesis going.

On the other hand there are great example synths that can combine sampled content and give ability to tweak for ex Omnisphere, Harmor, Form and more.

Indeed, but especially in the case of those vintage synths i find the most important part missing.
Use an osc to modulate the pitch of another osc or itself. PWM? Modulate the filter cutoff with osc? Everything should update at audio rate of course!
A simple LFO won´t do it and while the demos for sure sound good it is more of a snapshot of these famous synths rather than the real deal like The Legend, Repro-1, Diva, Model 15, P900 etc. or powerful synths which can do that all (more or less) like Dune 2.
I would love to see a synth which have all that plus using samples as OSC and/or modulation source (like Model 15 app or another coming iOS synth).
Falcon, Omnisphere etc are great but for pure synthesis they can´t do the stuff like audio rate modulation and using OSC´s to modulates everything.
Maybe there is not much interest for it (beside in the modular world) since i don´t see f.e. any patches in Dune 2 using the brilliant modulation matrix at audio rate.
I´m sure there is a place for preset player and you can make great sound design with this tool for sure. But i still think we are beyond sampled synths these days. It´s a bit different for acoustic instruments (but also not bad with some physical modeling tools).
So would that product a complete analog component modeled tool with some modern extras i had trough my money at it.
So it is a rompler with some basic synthesis options.

[HcDoom]

Can I do this with this A6 emu?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHEO1F5KT8

[bosone]

how many different analog/vintage synth emulation does a musician need!?!

[Elektronisch]

how many different analog/vintage synth emulation does a musician need!?!

I have no idea, but i wouldnt mind to get Andromeda A6.

[Cinebient]

how many different analog/vintage synth emulation does a musician need!?!

At least more than sampled synths. Since you would need 1000000.....+ GB to get every nuance you could get with a few analog modeled synths.
Of course a good modular could be enough if all the modules, envelopes and filters are included.

[zerocrossing]

how many different analog/vintage synth emulation does a musician need!?!

At least more than sampled synths. Since you would need 1000000.....+ GB to get every nuance you could get with a few analog modeled synths.
Of course a good modular could be enough if all the modules, envelopes and filters are included.

I guess it depends. If you want a basic, but high quality, bread and butter sound of an analog synth and you don't have many CPU cycles (I'm imaging this is fairly low compared to something like Roland's Jupiter 8 plugin) something like this comes in handy, especially if the patch quality is high and the filters are good. I tend to gravitate to actual synthesis, but I do have some holes that I wouldn't mind filling. There's nothing really for the SY99, Taurus, Andromeda, etc. A modular might get you Taurus sounds, but not the rest, and cost you a lot. Also, we love to cut down the preset user but there's nothing I find more of a waste of time than setting up basic synth patches that have already been done a million times. I'm not going to do it better, and usually all that's needed is some small tweaks to the filter and envelopes. The patches in the demos sound great to me. That alone is worth having for the crossgrade price. For me, at least.

To be honest, I wish IK had gone and done full on emulations, but that wouldn't cost me $99 minus $30 (Jampoints) = $69. Emulations would be harder to do and reflect that in the cost. Do I really need it? Nope, but I love the sound of the Andromeda and I'm most likely not going to ever pick one up. Also, the 38 effects it comes with, is nothing to sneeze at. I often use Amplitube as an effect processor for synths now, software and hardware. They're great. This isn't going to replace any of my software (well, maybe most V Collection stuff) or definitely not any of my hardware analogs, but it seems like a nice supplement.

If I ran IK, I'd be having a meeting right now to discuss how to start taking these sample based instruments and start turning them into full emulations. I imagine getting the filters right is more than half the battle. Why not finish it? Sure, we don't need another Model D, Prophet 6, Jupiter 8, etc emulations, but there are enough interesting synths on that list that have not been done (or done well) that I think most of us would be interested.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Just curious...We're any of the samples from SampleMoog or Sonik Synth 2 recycled for this product?

From press release: "...IK has sourced only the best instruments from private collections and sampled them over the course of several years..."

I'm going to infer from that the answer is yes? Those two old fellas are taking up about 13gb on my samples drive. If Syntronik makes them redundant, can I delete them?

There are no Sonik Synth 2 samples used, and at least 95% of the samples in Syntronik are new. We do have access to and/or on staff multiple accomplished keyboard players with a ton of vintage synth gear in their collection so it took a while to sample the gear (hence the several years, since on top of the extensive and deep sampling that was done some of them tour and record regularly with some of that gear). Syntronik will make neither product redundant.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Just a quick question for Peter:

I was listening to the Audio demos and have to admit they are quite impressive. Could you tell me if these have been mixed/mastered in any way or are they rough mixes (no FX, just panning and level)? If not, and since there is not a demo I was wondering if it would be possible to have some high quality audio demos (for d/l) of a few of the synths solo and raw?

It would certainly help for direct comparison to our existing gear to see if it is a good fit.

Thanks!

I wasn't directly involved in the finalization of these, so I'll have to check but I believe there are effects used from within Syntronik as they are part of the product. I've relayed your question and request, though. Thank you for the kind words, too.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

This certainly has my interest and I am excited for it. I have a few questions if anyone can answer them. I do generally like IK Multimedia products and own quite a few of them.

1.) Is this going to be basically a preset ROMpler close to Nexus where straying from the base sample is sort of disappointing?
2.) Do I need to install Quicktime for it? (
3.) Is there latency like T-Rracks?
4.) Is this a complete package? Or a basic package and the Syntronik XXXL Producer's Platinum Diamond edition with everythign listed costs $699?

1) No, it is far more than a preset machine. The oscillators are extensively sampled (as well as some full patches, of course) but the filters are analog-modeled filters, plus the DRIFT technology allows the oscillators to behave in a very realistic manner. I'll repost/paraphrase something I posted on the Cakewalk forum last night below that will answer this and some other questions in one (long) shot too.
2) No. You don't need to install QuickTime for any of our products as it is optional - only if you wanted to import MP3s into T-RackS standalone or AmpliTube standalone's recorder.
3) If you are having an issue with latency or latency reporting in T-RackS IK Support would be happy to assist you.
4) You get the 17 instruments, 2,000+ presets, filters, etc that are mentioned on the Syntronik product page for the price that is mentioned there. It is a complete package.

It sounds like you may have some issues with T-RackS that have been unresolved. Please work with (or continue to work with) IK Support on those or shoot me a PM if you are having issues or need to go into greater detail about them. Thanks!

My post from the Cakewalk forum mentioned above:

We make extensive use of round robin sampling throughout Syntronik, from the raw single oscillator samples to samples of complete presets. In addition to that, we also pay a LOT of attention to phase and phase relationships to capture the living, breathing, organic quality of analog synthesizers. This should answer the question about needing round robin sampling - especially due to the fact that we sampled the oscillators, not just synth patches from these vintage synthesizers.

Why sample oscillators? For modularity (especially marrying the analog-modeled filters to oscillators in combinations that haven't existed in hardware form anywhere) and for flexibility and tweakability. You can of course modulate the oscillators with a multi-shape LFO, tune or detune. The strength of the Syntronik oscillator is in its vast library of samples. We have seriously deep samples of the 38 classic synth and string machine oscillators. That is where the ultimate power and flexibility comes from. It also makes the synths sound much more authentic — much more like the real thing — than using modeled oscillators. Modeled oscillators of course provide more direct user programmability but this is not the main goal of Syntronik (though there is a lot of flexibility compared to a fully sample-based product). Instead, we provide a huge library of sounds that the user can play right away or easily edit to taste. It is not intended to be a ground-up sound design machine (maybe we'll dive more into those waters later?) but instead a go-to musical instrument where you can quickly get the iconic sounds you want with super high quality and extreme authenticity to the hardware.

"But where's the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc oscillator on x synth??"
Syntronik has a consistent control interface that is essentially the same for all of the synths in the collection. Only the sound and look changes from synth to synth, but not the functionality. This is to provide a consistent user experience throughout the whole product so you don't have to learn 17 different synths. Syntronik has 2 oscillator slots. We simulate 3-oscillator sounds (and 4, 8, 10-oscillator sounds, etc.) by providing samples of multiple oscillators that can in the either or both of the oscillator slots. So you cannot customize tuning for 3 separate oscillators, you can only do it for two of them. But remember that with our extensive — and I mean *extensive* — supply of multi-oscillator samples, we don’t expect this to be limiting at all.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Just a quick question for Peter:

I was listening to the Audio demos and have to admit they are quite impressive. Could you tell me if these have been mixed/mastered in any way or are they rough mixes (no FX, just panning and level)? If not, and since there is not a demo I was wondering if it would be possible to have some high quality audio demos (for d/l) of a few of the synths solo and raw?

It would certainly help for direct comparison to our existing gear to see if it is a good fit.

Thanks!

I wasn't directly involved in the finalization of these, so I'll have to check but I believe there are effects used from within Syntronik as they are part of the product. I've relayed your question and request, though. Thank you for the kind words, too.

Great! If it is anything like A4, LMC or the exceptional MODO even without more examples, this is pretty much bought for me.

I have one follow-up question (completely unrelated though) concerning polyphony. Does Syntronik have mono/poly switching? And also some info on note priority as well, please!

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Demo do sounds great! But i have very mixed feelings about calling this a synth because its clearly not a synth

Also im confused, clear me out:
walkthrough part 1 shows synths are being discussed and there has been mention of feature like voice stacking (unison). Naturaly you would expect this feature to be in this "synth" because why else you would mention that but how can that be if the content is sampled ?

Is there some oscillator edit page like where you would be able to select sampled waveshapes? mix volumes of oscillator?

Thanks for the kind words about the demos.

With regard to your question: We have sampled the raw oscillators in stacked in unison (with multiple round robins) so that you can use this sound and still adjust the filter and envelopes. We have also sampled some “full patches” where you get the unison sounds with the hardware synth’s sweeping envelopes, too.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Can I do this with this A6 emu?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHEO1F5KT8

I showed this video to the guy behind Syntronik who also happens to be the Product Manager and one of the designers of the Andromeda A6 (so he does know a thing or two about this synth ) and he said:

Yes, you can do that in Syntronik. We have a very nice arpeggiator, and you can certainly adjust the filters, envelopes and effects in real-time like this.

[Teksonik]

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples

Your definition of Synthesis is far too limited. Wiki:

"Synthesizers use various methods to generate electronic signals (sounds). Among the most popular waveform synthesis techniques are subtractive synthesis, additive synthesis, wavetable synthesis, frequency modulation synthesis, phase distortion synthesis, physical modeling synthesis and sample-based synthesis".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer

In the case of Syntronik the secret will be in the layers. Taking different sounds from different instruments, layering them together and applying effects, employing the Arpeggiators, sweeping filters etc. I imagine some quite complex and evolving sounds will be possible with a little imagination.

Anyway I'll almost certainly buy Syntronik despite the annoying month long pre-hype. Just wake me up a few days before it's actually released.

[ghettosynth]

Synth means to synthesize the sound. In this "synth" case there is no synthesis going just playback of samples

Your definition of Synthesis is far too limited. Wiki:

"Synthesizers use various methods to generate electronic signals (sounds). Among the most popular waveform synthesis techniques are subtractive synthesis, additive synthesis, wavetable synthesis, frequency modulation synthesis, phase distortion synthesis, physical modeling synthesis and sample-based synthesis".

People will debate this forever, but, the point remains that some people view sample based synthesis as somewhat distinct from non-sample based synthesis owing to both the limitations and advantages of the former. Wiki definitions will not change that.

I like certain sample based instruments quite a bit, but generally not sample based variants of classic analog synths. For me, there's just not much point to them. Other people may disagree with that, and that's fine.