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MogwaiBoy wrote:I use AKG K702s and the bass roll-off is significant.. Going to have to try this Sonarworks thing out.
I was surprised to find that Sonarworks has a few models of different monitor systems in addition to flat frequency response. The "French hi-fi home speaker simulation" adds a lot of bass.

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I don't get the sonarworks thing. I actually have the waves dohickey, but have never used it (I think it was like 19 bucks or something)

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incubus wrote:I don't get the sonarworks thing. I actually have the waves dohickey, but have never used it (I think it was like 19 bucks or something)
The Sonarworks concept is pretty simple, they measured different headphones and then correct for the frequency response imperfections. The Waves concept is also pretty simple, they inject audio from each side into to the other to approximate what's happening when you listen over speakers. However, they also monitor your head position to approximate what's happening when you turn your head when listening to speakers, which supposedly helps keep your ears from feeling worn out.

I use them both together.

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ghettosynth wrote:It's probably worth that, but I'm not seeing the point really. What's so interesting about it, price notwithstanding?
The developer recently added a wavetable mode that's somewhat unique. You can load two different wavetables that can be combined together in three different ways. Then you can modulate the wavescanning differently to get some interesting modulation. You can do this sort of in Serum but not exactly. And since Fathom is modular you're not spending all the oscillators on it.

There's also the oscillators conceptually being composed of sine partials as opposed to a drawn waveform that's being band-limited. You can adjust the number of partials and the band limiting frequency. It's an embrace of digital synthesis limitations that most virtual instruments try to shy away from.

It was the price of a lunch, it's being constantly and frequently developed, the developer is welcoming input and implementing it, so the business/development process is interesting to me as well.

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So I have to give credit where credit is due sometimes. And Waves has really done well with their sale this month.

Because of it I've already spent $570 with them this month. Thank you Waves.

You 'get it'.

Others who don't do sales or do them well... you're missing out on my dollars in your pocket. Something to think about.

For instance Propellerheads. I paid $99 for Essentials several years ago. Been regretting it ever since as it really doesn't get me $99 towards an upgrade to the full version. And every time I ask, they say no. Asked 4 years ago. Asked this week. Still no.

I'll keep waiting.

Really happy they are adding VST finally. What took you so long guys to finally understand the idea of meeting market demand? Well, I have to say I'm happy you finally came around. Someone is waking up. Kudos. Really.

But, I'm still not paying $300+ for another DAW. I already own Cubase 8.5(Started at 6 and upgrade EVERY time. Because it's reasonable pricing each year of $50 or $99), Logic Pro X, Studio One 3 Pro, Ableton Live 9 Suite. Probably others I'm forgetting. (Edit: Forgot I own Pro Tools 11 too).

I don't really want to pay another $300 for yet another Daw. I'm interested for up to $150 but no more. Here's to hoping the guy who finally decided to add VST also understands the concept of 'time value of money' and figures out they're leaving money on the table by not making more attractive upgrades from essentials to the full version. Those of us who spent $99 on version 2 which is now useless with no upgrade path are basically penalized for having bought it. They expect a full $69 to get Essentials 9. Thanks... And a full $299 to upgrade to 9 full. (Edit: It's actually $329 to upgrade from essentials) Kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth for having supported them with the purchase those years ago...

Companies. Get smart please with your sales marketing. Study companies like IK Multimedia and how they extend GB sales for a month or two to get more buyers. It works. They add value via the group buy numbers. It works. I always buy. I now own most of their products because of it. And I keep buying the higher the value add.

Same for plugin-boutique. They always have a few $9 loss leaders and then additional discounts for each plugin added. Plus coupons. Smart. Guess what? I always buy.

Same for Waves. I own almost EVERYTHING they offer now. Why? Because they make it attractive via the above methods.

Same for Izotope. I own everything they have too now because of the upgrade bundle pricing from having owned prior products.

See. It's not hard.

Do it.

I'll buy.

But keep your prices high and have pithy 15% off sales and I'll let you keep your wares. And I'll keep waiting.
Last edited by Rational on Fri May 26, 2017 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Do you mean plugin-alliance?

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ghettosynth wrote:Do you mean plugin-alliance?
Doh! I always do that with those two companies. Yes. Plugin-alliance.

Plugin Boutique has some sales that are attractive at times. But not usually.

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incubus wrote:I don't get the sonarworks thing. I actually have the waves dohickey, but have never used it (I think it was like 19 bucks or something)
That is apples and oranges. I have the Waves solution (did the Kickstarter) but rarely use it. I think that is primarily useful for people who are producing or mixing 7.1/5.1/5.0 in headphones, which you really could not do otherwise.

The Sonarworks solution creates a near-flat frequency response where there is none (and there never really is). And that allows you to make much better mixing decisions. I was really blown away by how much that has an effect even with higher end headphones. And that effect is even greater when the headphones are custom calibrated (you could have your own headphones calibrated but you need to send them to Sonarworks in Latvia, so it is just easier and more economic to buy new ones from them). I currently use a custom calibrated pair of ATH M50x and I quite honestly do not know how I was able to live without these. If you custom calibrate you get separate correction curves for left and right channel smoothing out any inconsistencies in the headphone components.

The Sonarworks solution has the added benefit that you can add speaker calibration (which is much better than the IK Multimedia ARC2 solution, btw) and control both through a single plugin. They also added a "systemwide" solution that works outside the DAW and can be used to calibrate any audio from your computer system (although that is still a bit quirky, at least on a Mac).

Needless to say, I am a big fan of the Sonarworks solution. :D
Follow me on Youtube for videos on spatial and immersive audio production.

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You can go to the Sonarworks website and test it out with your own headphones. I could definitely hear a difference. They let you choose the headphones you are using and allow a calibrated vs non-calibrated listen of 3 types of music.

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"They also added a "systemwide" solution that works outside the DAW and can be used to calibrate any audio from your computer system (although that is still a bit quirky, at least on a Mac)."

Ah, yeah. Like completely buggy. Visited a buddy's studio today and his 'systemwide' plugin option totally locked up twice in an hour. Had to restart his interface and the plugin to get it back on. Just watching a video on youtube caused this. Not ready for primetime on this feature.

But I admit it is a feature I really want. I plan to get Sonarworks full version with the headphones and mic as well here soon. Running ARC 2 now.

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Has anyone compared the Sonarworks and the new Tonebooster plugin ?
(haven't got any working headphones here atm :-( )

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Rational wrote:So I have to give credit where credit is due sometimes. And Waves has really done well with their sale this month.
...
You 'get it'.
I meant to comment on this as well. I agree and I've said this before. Even those of us who view ourselves as rational consumers who try to make good purchase decisions are not immune from marketing efforts. It's really quite simple, it's a variant of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

Now, I haven't given Waves quite as much cash as you have LOL, but, their sales attract my attention as well.

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Rational wrote:So I have to give credit where credit is due sometimes. And Waves has really done well with their sale this month....
But, I'm still not paying $300+ for another DAW. I already own Cubase 8.5(Started at 6 and upgrade EVERY time. Because it's reasonable pricing each year of $50 or $99), Logic Pro X, Studio One 3 Pro, Ableton Live 9 Suite. Probably others I'm forgetting. (Edit: Forgot I own Pro Tools 11 too).

I don't really want to pay another $300 for yet another Daw. I'm interested for up to $150 but no more. Here's to hoping the guy who finally decided to add VST also understands the concept of 'time value of money' and figures out they're leaving money on the table by not making more attractive upgrades from essentials to the full version. Those of us who spent $99 on version 2 which is now useless with no upgrade path are basically penalized for having bought it. They expect a full $69 to get Essentials 9. Thanks... And a full $299 to upgrade to 9 full. (Edit: It's actually $329 to upgrade from essentials) Kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth for having supported them with the purchase those years ago...
If your goal is "best bang for your buck" you should NOT be using Cubase, lol. That is by far the most expensive DAW as they indeed charge you $50-$99 every year for decent improvements, but more importantly bug fixes which should have been fixed for free. I purchased Logic X and Cubase 6.5 at the same time, and Logic X has yet to charge me anything for an upgrade, and in addition to consistent bug fixes, it has added so many great features, instruments (like camel audio alchemy) scripting abilities, etc all for FREE. Now that being said, I still feel Cubase is the better daw overall and use it the most as I'm the fastest at it (Love the macros you can assign to key commands, control room, and other features) but it has cost me well over $700 since v6.5 where Logic Pro is still just $199, and still providing new features and free updates on top of what was a solid DAW. So to me, price per value in Logic is much greater than in Cubase, and with the lackluster upgrade in Cubase 9 while charing the full $99 for what seems like a .5 update at best feature wise, cubase 8.5 might be my last Cubase purchase.
My progressive rock band - free demos here!! (and if you do listen please let me know what you think!) http://www.aeonsatori.com/news/free-downloads

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LGK_Dude wrote:
Rational wrote:So I have to give credit where credit is due sometimes. And Waves has really done well with their sale this month....
But, I'm still not paying $300+ for another DAW. I already own Cubase 8.5(Started at 6 and upgrade EVERY time. Because it's reasonable pricing each year of $50 or $99), Logic Pro X, Studio One 3 Pro, Ableton Live 9 Suite. Probably others I'm forgetting. (Edit: Forgot I own Pro Tools 11 too).

I don't really want to pay another $300 for yet another Daw. I'm interested for up to $150 but no more. Here's to hoping the guy who finally decided to add VST also understands the concept of 'time value of money' and figures out they're leaving money on the table by not making more attractive upgrades from essentials to the full version. Those of us who spent $99 on version 2 which is now useless with no upgrade path are basically penalized for having bought it. They expect a full $69 to get Essentials 9. Thanks... And a full $299 to upgrade to 9 full. (Edit: It's actually $329 to upgrade from essentials) Kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth for having supported them with the purchase those years ago...
If your goal is "best bang for your buck" you should NOT be using Cubase, lol. That is by far the most expensive DAW as they indeed charge you $50-$99 every year for decent improvements, but more importantly bug fixes which should have been fixed for free. I purchased Logic X and Cubase 6.5 at the same time, and Logic X has yet to charge me anything for an upgrade, and in addition to consistent bug fixes, it has added so many great features, instruments (like camel audio alchemy) scripting abilities, etc all for FREE. Now that being said, I still feel Cubase is the better daw overall and use it the most as I'm the fastest at it (Love the macros you can assign to key commands, control room, and other features) but it has cost me well over $700 since v6.5 where Logic Pro is still just $199, and still providing new features and free updates on top of what was a solid DAW. So to me, price per value in Logic is much greater than in Cubase, and with the lackluster upgrade in Cubase 9 while charing the full $99 for what seems like a .5 update at best feature wise, cubase 8.5 might be my last Cubase purchase.
I buy .5 upgrades from Cubase when they are on sale and I registered them when it's the grace period for the new version. I paid less than 40$ for the upgrade from Cubase 8 to 8.5 and got Cubase 9 for free after registering within the grace period.

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Rational wrote: I already own Cubase 8.5(Started at 6 and upgrade EVERY time. Because it's reasonable pricing each year of $50 or $99)
Sorry but you are not worthy of your alias. :lol:
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.

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