Do any synths have "intelligent" oscillator pitch controls?

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zerocrossing wrote:
Cinebient wrote:Falcon.
How so? I'm in it now and I have the analog stack loaded up and I just see the regular settings.
There is a script (events) called "tonal harmonizer". I´m even not sure if i downloaded it somewhere or if it was included.
I´m not sure if that is what you would want. There is setting for 1-6 notes. You can set a key in which you want to play.... a mode (like minor, major, lydian, arabic and a lot others...) and a voicing (like 4th, close 7, open 3, Guitar 1, 2, 3 and whatever....a lot).
You also can set on top a degree, octave, velocity amount and pan per voice/note.
All that will be triggered then via a single key.
I never use it really so i don´t know if that is what you want :D
But now i will have a look into it :wink:

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fluffy_little_something wrote:Is that intended for people who suck at playing keyboards? 8)
All that's missing is a button that spits out a complete #1 tune :roll:
Well, I'm not saying my keyboard skills are all that great :scared: , but I think you're missing the point. Urs made a very good case for why this would be good, but beyond that, we've got oscillators. Not always more than one, but usually two or more. Right? Well, you can detune them (not going there) or you can go further and tune them to different intervals. At low volumes compared to the first oscillator, they will just behave like harmonics to extend the character of the usual analog waveforms, which is cool, and how I normally use them, but what got me thinking about this was the ubiquitous fifth and seventh interval presets (that I never use) where you always end up with some sour notes that just don't work in the scale you're using. So, I just tend to ignore that function. It just occurred to me that it's there, and could be useful if it were just a bit smarter. Why not?
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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Cinebient wrote:
zerocrossing wrote:
Cinebient wrote:Falcon.
How so? I'm in it now and I have the analog stack loaded up and I just see the regular settings.
There is a script (events) called "tonal harmonizer". I´m even not sure if i downloaded it somewhere or if it was included.
I´m not sure if that is what you would want. There is setting for 1-6 notes. You can set a key in which you want to play.... a mode (like minor, major, lydian, arabic and a lot others...) and a voicing (like 4th, close 7, open 3, Guitar 1, 2, 3 and whatever....a lot).
You also can set on top a degree, octave, velocity amount and pan per voice/note.
All that will be triggered then via a single key.
I never use it really so i don´t know if that is what you want :D
But now i will have a look into it :wink:
Yeah, I see it now. That's actually very cool, and I'll use it for sure, but not quite what I was talking about. I also stumbled across it's alternate tuning scripts, and I'm currently having a blast with "byzantine."
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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zerocrossing wrote:
Cinebient wrote:
zerocrossing wrote:
Cinebient wrote:Falcon.
How so? I'm in it now and I have the analog stack loaded up and I just see the regular settings.
There is a script (events) called "tonal harmonizer". I´m even not sure if i downloaded it somewhere or if it was included.
I´m not sure if that is what you would want. There is setting for 1-6 notes. You can set a key in which you want to play.... a mode (like minor, major, lydian, arabic and a lot others...) and a voicing (like 4th, close 7, open 3, Guitar 1, 2, 3 and whatever....a lot).
You also can set on top a degree, octave, velocity amount and pan per voice/note.
All that will be triggered then via a single key.
I never use it really so i don´t know if that is what you want :D
But now i will have a look into it :wink:
Yeah, I see it now. That's actually very cool, and I'll use it for sure, but not quite what I was talking about. I also stumbled across it's alternate tuning scripts, and I'm currently having a blast with "byzantine."
My favorite new option of Falcon 1.3 is the .tun file import (i have a lot from Alchemy 1.55 and Omnisphere and i can create my own with the CSE stuff). It even works great with third party instruments like Bohemian Violin. But it took me a while to figure out that it´s needed to put the script before the instruments own script.
But maybe someone could script what you want? I wish i could :D

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zerocrossing wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Is that intended for people who suck at playing keyboards? 8)
All that's missing is a button that spits out a complete #1 tune :roll:
Well, I'm not saying my keyboard skills are all that great :scared: , but I think you're missing the point. Urs made a very good case for why this would be good, but beyond that, we've got oscillators. Not always more than one, but usually two or more. Right? Well, you can detune them (not going there) or you can go further and tune them to different intervals. At low volumes compared to the first oscillator, they will just behave like harmonics to extend the character of the usual analog waveforms, which is cool, and how I normally use them, but what got me thinking about this was the ubiquitous fifth and seventh interval presets (that I never use) where you always end up with some sour notes that just don't work in the scale you're using. So, I just tend to ignore that function. It just occurred to me that it's there, and could be useful if it were just a bit smarter. Why not?
If someone wants to develop stuff like that, cool... there is room for lots of experimentation and who knows where it may lead! ;)

For playing chords, I don't particularly find it of much interest cause I can already play whatever chords I want and with greater nuance and spontaneous control than a smart system.

But for generative stuff like Urs mentioned, that could be fun to play with.

What sounds more interesting to me is time based pitch manipulation that can be in key... so I play and hold a note and after a couple seconds, the pitch quickly glides up a 5th. Easy to do with an MSEG... but obviously depending on the starting note, the 5th might not be the useful interval. So some way to dynamically control the interval by setting scale.

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zerocrossing wrote:Well, I'm not saying my keyboard skills are all that great :scared: , but I think you're missing the point. Urs made a very good case for why this would be good, but beyond that, we've got oscillators. Not always more than one, but usually two or more. Right? Well, you can detune them (not going there) or you can go further and tune them to different intervals. At low volumes compared to the first oscillator, they will just behave like harmonics to extend the character of the usual analog waveforms, which is cool, and how I normally use them, but what got me thinking about this was the ubiquitous fifth and seventh interval presets (that I never use) where you always end up with some sour notes that just don't work in the scale you're using. So, I just tend to ignore that function. It just occurred to me that it's there, and could be useful if it were just a bit smarter. Why not?
Not sure I get what you mean. Most of my pads for instance use 2 oscillators tuned 5 or 7 semitones apart, both at the same volume. But pads are the only instrument category where I do that.

Of course such tuning limits which keys you can play at the same time. I suppose that is what you mean by sour notes. But why would you assign 2 or 3 different notes to every key if you want to play chords in addition to that?

I have a jazzy 4-oscillator brass pad where one key plays four different notes, it sounds nice, but of course I only use it in monophonic mode :hihi: And in mono mode I can play basically any note sequence, there are no sour notes.

https://app.box.com/s/2r5x1l9l50tz5ibjkvnf584cdeeu9ids

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Just dialed a patch consisting of three oscillators in Rapid. When i play a three note chord on a keyboard, the first oscillator plays only the lower note, the second oscillator plays only the middle note and the third oscillator plays the highest note. I can play any three note chords and any sequences of them. Is this what you need, Zerocrossing?
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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I remember using an old casio synth/arranger my grandfather had. The kind with only preset sounds, pre-recorded rythms and split keyboard for right hand melody and left hand bass/chords.
There was an easy chord feature that I think did what you described. Press a C and you got a major C. Press a C and Eb and you got a minor C.
Is that what you are looking for? If that is the case you should be able to use any synth if you process MIDI before it. This should be doable with Pure Data quite easily.

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Another vote for Chordz here.

Im currently using it in a song for the first time and i must say i really like it.

What makes it different from other chorder plugins ive seen is that while it does come with many presets, you are not confined to using only them. In Chordz the whole thing is completely open and user configurable, and setting it up is easy too. Just select a note (C through B) on the small 1-oct keyboard, specify the chord you want played on that note via the large 5-oct keyboard, done. Finally set the Tonic (if you dont want it to be C) and youre good to go. Each key from C through B will play exactly the chord youve specified, with any synth, no special oscillator stunts necessary.

(A cool extra is that Chordz also doubles as a 'strummer' and randomizer. On the Timing/Velocity page you can set up delays for up to 5 notes with full control over what note in the chord is delayed when and how much. (In other words youre not confined to 1-2-3-4-5 order, you can delay the first/lowest note to play last as well if thats what you want, or anything inbetween.) And whats especially nifty is that you can not only delay the start of the note, but the end of the note as well. That way you can have selected notes in the chord sustain longer than the other notes, which, depending of course on the sound, can give pretty cool effects upon release because you can (so to speak) let the 'main' chord decay into a 'secondary' chord.)


At any rate, Chordz is definitely something worth trying out. Especially for people who arent really into the finer mechanics of chords it can be a potential source for fresh ideas. Since it is free theres nothing to lose. Chordz is also free of any copy protection mechanisms, so no stress with any of that either.


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recursive one wrote:Just dialed a patch consisting of three oscillators in Rapid. When i play a three note chord on a keyboard, the first oscillator plays only the lower note, the second oscillator plays only the middle note and the third oscillator plays the highest note. I can play any three note chords and any sequences of them. Is this what you need, Zerocrossing?
That doesn't sound like what I'm after. I want all the oscillators to sound on every key press. I just want the intervals to auto adjust themselves based on what key and scale I tell them I'm playing in. I've got the Rapid demo downloading now, so I'll check it out.

[edit]

Unless it's buried in a weird place, I can't see anywhere what I'm talking about is implemented at all in Rapid.
Last edited by zerocrossing on Tue May 30, 2017 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

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fluffy_little_something wrote:
zerocrossing wrote:Well, I'm not saying my keyboard skills are all that great :scared: , but I think you're missing the point. Urs made a very good case for why this would be good, but beyond that, we've got oscillators. Not always more than one, but usually two or more. Right? Well, you can detune them (not going there) or you can go further and tune them to different intervals. At low volumes compared to the first oscillator, they will just behave like harmonics to extend the character of the usual analog waveforms, which is cool, and how I normally use them, but what got me thinking about this was the ubiquitous fifth and seventh interval presets (that I never use) where you always end up with some sour notes that just don't work in the scale you're using. So, I just tend to ignore that function. It just occurred to me that it's there, and could be useful if it were just a bit smarter. Why not?
Not sure I get what you mean. Most of my pads for instance use 2 oscillators tuned 5 or 7 semitones apart, both at the same volume. But pads are the only instrument category where I do that.

Of course such tuning limits which keys you can play at the same time. I suppose that is what you mean by sour notes. But why would you assign 2 or 3 different notes to every key if you want to play chords in addition to that?

I have a jazzy 4-oscillator brass pad where one key plays four different notes, it sounds nice, but of course I only use it in monophonic mode :hihi: And in mono mode I can play basically any note sequence, there are no sour notes.

https://app.box.com/s/2r5x1l9l50tz5ibjkvnf584cdeeu9ids
Right, you exactly get what I'm talking about. I just don't want the limit of what notes I can play at the same time. I want the oscillators to be smart enough to say, "the interval I'm set at isn't going to work on this note, better move it."

Sure, it's lazy, but... well I'm lazy. :lol:
Zerocrossing Media

4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~

Post

zerocrossing wrote:
recursive one wrote:Just dialed a patch consisting of three oscillators in Rapid. When i play a three note chord on a keyboard, the first oscillator plays only the lower note, the second oscillator plays only the middle note and the third oscillator plays the highest note. I can play any three note chords and any sequences of them. Is this what you need, Zerocrossing?
That doesn't sound like what I'm after. I want all the oscillators to sound on every key press. I just want the intervals to auto adjust themselves based on what key and scale I tell them I'm playing in. I've got the Rapid demo downloading now, so I'll check it out.
.

It doesnt let you play chords by pressing one key but if you are playing full chords it distributes the chord steps between oscillators. This way you adjust the intervals manually and you can play any sequence of chords formed by multiple oscillators corresponding to the chord steps.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try

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zerocrossing wrote:Right, you exactly get what I'm talking about. I just don't want the limit of what notes I can play at the same time. I want the oscillators to be smart enough to say, "the interval I'm set at isn't going to work on this note, better move it."

Sure, it's lazy, but... well I'm lazy. :lol:
If the interval(s) is (are) set right for one note, it (they) will be right for all notes. So, all you have to do is play a monophonic melody, so to speak.

Or do you expect the synth to guess what melodies, harmonies, chord progressions you want to hear and change intervals dynamically? 8)

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zerocrossing wrote:
Right, you exactly get what I'm talking about. I just don't want the limit of what notes I can play at the same time. I want the oscillators to be smart enough to say, "the interval I'm set at isn't going to work on this note, better move it."

Sure, it's lazy, but... well I'm lazy. :lol:
There have been numerous attempts at 'smart' systems. There really is no substitute for human skill.

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You mean human madness.

It isn't the notes you play correctly that matter. It's the notes you play incorrectly :)
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