Syntronik [update March 2018: New T-03 Bonus Content & 4-for-1 bass synth promo] available

[wagtunes]

Not trying to redefine anything, ghetto. I've said - repeatedly - that it's a rompler. I'm merely saying there are romplers and romplers. May I remind you your specific terminology was a "basic rompler". So there are other kinds, right? What would your example of an enhanced rompler be, if Syntronik isn't it? For me a basic rompler = a preset machine. An enhanced or advanced rompler would give you more creative options, and enable you to design a patch from scratch. Doesn't seem like a totally crazy definition, right?

So I've just opened UVI's DS77 (it's been a while - can you tell?). The only way I can see to start is to load a preset. Once I'm there, I have an ADSR, a HP/BP/LP filter, pitch, drive, butcrusher, effects and modwheel controls for trem or filter. That's it. No sources to start with, unless there's a hidden page I've always missed. So that - and I presume the rest of the UVI synth range - is rather like Nexus. They are basic romplers - preset machines with some (useful) basic tweaks.

Now let's compare with Syntronik's OBXa (just from the picture). Well there it is - an oscillator section, with a choice of waveforms. The 2nd oscillator has detune. You also have a wide choice of modelled filters and a basic mod section. Clearly somewhere there's also the large FX and arp sections. Now, that's a less control than a real OBXa, but with its (cutdown) Osc section that's more than UVI.

That said, what I don't see from the pictures of other syntronik synths is any kind of browser for sources. Maybe it's hidden away, or maybe its embedded in the patches, in which for many of the synths you won't be able to start from scratch. And just to repeat before I have it thrown back at me - I absolutely am not saying that the synthesis options are vast. I agree that you're given limited control, and most of the variation will depend on the samples. But potentially at least, this is more than a basic rompler.

Agree. That is essentially what this is. More than a basic rompler but not a full blown synth.

Unfortunately, not everybody will agree.

Welcome to KVR.

[Kumi_27]

You can change? What do you think is wave selector for or shape? Do you have any idea what are you talking about?

I think I do have an idea. Years ago I programmed DSP chips to play some music tunes so I know a thing or two.
Probably more than some people here

[Elektronisch]

You can change? What do you think is wave selector for or shape? Do you have any idea what are you talking about?

I think I do have an idea. Years ago I programmed DSP chips to play some music tunes so I know a thing or two.
Probably more than some people here

Well if you know a thing or two then you should know that you can change oscillator waveforms in most of the synths

[Kumi_27]

You know, maybe it's a matter of foreign (to me) technical language, but the term "oscillator" doesn't sound good to me here (not sure if pun intended). For me it's more like "generator".
And then sure, the basic oscillator circuit (more or less "constant" waveform) can make different waveforms on the generator's output, but it's made by adding some wave-shaping circuits after the oscillator.
At least in physical realm - like for RC or crystal oscillator.

But here we're talking (imho) about DSG - Digital Signal Generators. Where waveforms are directly calculated or read from predefined tables.
Sometimes it's called Numerically Controlled Oscillator or Direct Digital Synthesizer.
So maybe in english it is called an digital oscillator as a whole.
If You change the table (the "sampleset" as You said), You will have different waveform, but technically it's still an oscillator.
Even when it's a part of the rompler

[Examigan]

So I've just opened UVI's DS77 (it's been a while - can you tell?). The only way I can see to start is to load a preset. Once I'm there, I have an ADSR, a HP/BP/LP filter, pitch, drive, bitcrusher, effects and modwheel controls for trem or filter. That's it. No sources to start with, unless there's a hidden page I've always missed. So that - and I presume the rest of the UVI synth range - is rather like Nexus. They are basic romplers - preset machines with some (useful) basic tweaks.

Now let's compare with Syntronik's OBXa (just from the picture). Well there it is - an oscillator section, with a choice of waveforms. The 2nd oscillator has detune. You also have a wide choice of modelled filters and a basic mod section. Clearly somewhere there's also the large FX and arp sections. Now, that's a less control than a real OBXa, but with its (cutdown) Osc section that's more than UVI.

I haven't checked the DS77 lately, but you can choose from all the different waveforms in UVI's UltraMini and save and load your presets in using the DAW. From the description for it: "We started with the beautiful 1971 model, sampling every waveform of every oscillator across every key - and we did this for multiple overdrive settings."

[Hink]

This childish discussion is beneath him, lucky for us we're entertained by the snobbery.

Yep when snobbs dont make any argument and try to get in to a discussion and thinking they are bigger person by saying "get over it".

Get over it already, seriously need a tissue you seem to have a deeper issue.

actually you need to stop the personal and snarky attacks

[zerocrossing]

Call it whatever you want, it's still a rompler.

It's exactly what I said it was - yes, no quibble a ROMpler, pretty limited abilities at manipulation, but greatly in excess of the likes of Nexus. So - an enhanced ROMpler. Not all ROMplers are created equal.

The distinction isn't trivial. Nexus = presets, end of story. Not true here, even though its not the same as a fully fledged synth or anything like. The architecture of Syntronic - with a couple of oscillators per layer and 4 layers - would mean it would be pretty easy to create unique patches. It might be a nice way to work actually - programming with big building blocks.

Still don't think its for me, mind.

True. Roland, is calling it's new ROMpler engine "Supernatural." From demos I've heard, they've done a great job getting a lot of expression and nuance out of the on board sample ROM, but make no bones about it, at it's core there are samples on a ROM device. Other types of synthesis too, like a VA engine, but if you say Supernatural is a ROMpler engine, the Roland fans get all bent out of shape.

In the end, I say, "spare me the labor pains and give me the baby." Other than capabilities, I couldn't care less what tech is used on any instrument. If all the onboard sounds are actually samples of Peter imitating synths with his butt, but they made those demos, I'm in. I've got 7 analog synths (one hybrid) that all have varying amounts of sound generation capabilities. From the very simple Neptune 2 (an amazing synth if you can find one) that's more or less a souped up Model D, to the Tetras that have 4 LFOs, big mod matrix, etc. Deepmind 12 with a big on board effects processor. Even a ROMpler in the Tempest that sits alone the DSI analog engine. The only thing I'm missing in hardware is a device that does FM synthesis, but I've got a healthy sized folder of plugins that do great. I'm set for tweakability.

What I don't have is a single "vintage" instrument. I can't be bothered to spend the money and the effort. Not really interested in shipping synths out to get re-capped, etc. I don't like to play a synth that doesn't, at the very least, respond to velocity. I can squeeze fairly vintage tones out of the ATC-X and the Neptune 2. Maybe even fake a little (very limited) VS action on the Tempest. Software like Oddity 2, impOSCar 2, Legend, OP-X Pro, RePro-1/(soon 5) etc, all vintage and highly tweakable. So, the reason I pre-ordered this without quite knowing the extent of Syntronik's tweakability and limitations is that it sounds amazing and, with my Jampoints,is a bit cheaper than a sushi dinner for my family (yeah, we live in the SF area ) Even if there wasn't a single adjustment possible, but just a set of those beautiful sounding presets (I really do think they did a great job at that), which sound an awful lot like patches I make on my own anyway, it's more than worth it. It's not going to stop me from going to my ATC-X, Neptune, Legend or Monark for Moogish style sounds, but I sure don't have a Taurus or Memorymoog. I'll never risk buying an Andromeda, who's chips can fail and then you find you're SOL getting it fixed. Basically, I'm never going to buy a single instrument on that list. If you do have a room full of those synths, you probably shouldn't even be clicking on this thread... well, unless you want versions of those instruments that aren't constantly going out of tune.

Now all I have to consider is, do I put it in my Sampler/ROMpler folder, or in my VA folder?

[zerocrossing]

Rompler is definitely better than rompers.

Have you seen pictures of my child in one of her rompers? Cute as a bugs ear, I tell ya! Also, a time saver when trying to dress a squirming infant. I'd call those technologies tied, in terms of usefulness.

[zerocrossing]

It's a ROMpler. It's settled.

Yep, and was clear right from the start, it's IKM not U-he. Anyway, no problem with Romplers here. Very interested.

I just bought it. I'd listened to all the demos about 4 times. The last time with attention paid to filter sweeps. Many were just too long and meandering to be a sample, and they did sound great. So, for not too much money I'll at the very least get the ability to pair different Samplesets with different filters. That's worth the price alone. Plus, what ever last of synth control one might have will obviously be made up in the effects section.

Corrected

oscillator
ˈɒsɪleɪtə/Submit
noun
a device for generating oscillatory electric currents or voltages by non-mechanical means

I concede, but if you go by that definition, not a single software synthesizer qualifies as having oscillators. All the generating of electric current is done by my audio interface. Is that an oscillator?

There comes a point, when talking about technology, where you have to stop being pedantic in order to be clearly understood, especially for marketing purposes, when you don't get a lot of time or attention to make your point. I get that clear definitions make communications more precise, but not always easier. For instance, look at a lot of "wavetable" synthesizers. Sure, some like the MicroMonsta, Blofeld, PPG 3, etc, are true wavetable synths (or are they ROMplers?) in the original sense of the term, but look at the Prophet 12, Peak, Zebra 2, etc, where you've got wavetable like behavior that's clearly being done with very different technology. Look at the Gearslutz Peak thread (don't actually). It's rife with talk about what a NCO is. Irrelevant, if you ask me, at least in terms of what is coming out of the audio jacks, but people are very concerned about knowing exactly what's going on. I've got an electric car, but when my daughter asked me what the pedals were for, I explained "gas and break," without even thinking. I could have said, "potentiometer accelerator and break," but that wouldn't be better information to a 4 year old. (I did give her an aside that my car didn't actually use gas, but the pedal served the same function)

So, Peak is announced, and instead of saying, "Peak digital morphing oscillator synth with analog VCF and VCA" (which would be fine with me) they said, "Wavetable hybrid synth." They do get into the underlying tech in other marketing stuff (for nerds) but that's not what they lead with. It's the right thing to do. I almost never refer to my car as an "electric car." Why? What it runs on is usually irrelevant to the conversation, unless it's in the context of, "Why don't you drive your car to the Grand Canyon?"

Anyway, in this case, IK's in a hard position. If they say "ROMpler," they get associated with limited tech from the past that's currently out of fashion. If they say "virtual analog," they're criticized for being disingenuous and not properly describing their instrument. I think they did a great job:

Syntronik is a cutting-edge virtual synthesizer that raises the bar in sound quality and flexibility thanks to the most advanced sampling techniques combined with a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine.

That sure sounds like an accurate discription to me. I think they could have done the video demo I asked for, where they go step by step on how to set up a patch from scratch, but so be it.

[zerocrossing]

So I've just opened UVI's DS77 (it's been a while - can you tell?). The only way I can see to start is to load a preset.

I don't know if this works in their player, but I use it in Falcon, and you can absolutely start from scratch using sample sets from other UVI libraries.

[gas pump]

Syntronik is a cutting-edge virtual synthesizer that raises the bar in sound quality and flexibility thanks to the most advanced sampling techniques combined with a new hybrid sample and modeling synthesis engine.

I guess it's not merely just a rompler after all.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Don't get all the stuff about ROMplers being limited. When I used hardware, I owned several ROMplers; namely a D-50, K-4 and 2 Emu Proteus rack mounts and I was able to create some very cool sounds from them. I never thought of them as limited at all....guess it depends on your attitude and creativity.

[zerocrossing]

Don't get all the stuff about ROMplers being limited. When I used hardware, I owned several ROMplers; namely a D-50, K-4 and 2 Emu Proteus rack mounts and I was able to create some very cool sounds from them. I never thought of them as limited at all....guess it depends on your attitude and creativity.

I think it comes from those old boxes that were such a PITA to edit that people just used them as preset boxes. Editing the Proteus boxes without the software editor isn't my idea of fun. However, when you do get that editor software running, it's not bad and you find that the Proteus engine is super flexible. Much more than many other synthesizers. Maybe more than any of the instruments that were used to create Syntronik. I can't speak to the Alesis Andromeda, though. I've heard it's very deep. I've never used one.

[ghettosynth]

So I've just opened UVI's DS77 (it's been a while - can you tell?). The only way I can see to start is to load a preset. Once I'm there, I have an ADSR, a HP/BP/LP filter, pitch, drive, bitcrusher, effects and modwheel controls for trem or filter. That's it. No sources to start with, unless there's a hidden page I've always missed. So that - and I presume the rest of the UVI synth range - is rather like Nexus. They are basic romplers - preset machines with some (useful) basic tweaks.

I haven't checked the DS77 lately, but you can choose from all the different waveforms in UVI's UltraMini and save and load your presets in using the DAW. From the description for it: "We started with the beautiful 1971 model, sampling every waveform of every oscillator across every key - and we did this for multiple overdrive settings."

Indeed, moreover, you can't now redefine rompler to mean preset machine. THAT ISN'T WHAT THE WORD MEANS! My Univox SR-95 is a preset machine, but it's not a rompler, the OB-SX was a preset machine, but it wasn't a rompler

Now let's compare with Syntronik's OBXa (just from the picture). Well there it is - an oscillator section, with a choice of waveforms. The 2nd oscillator has detune. You also have a wide choice of modelled filters and a basic mod section. Clearly somewhere there's also the large FX and arp sections. Now, that's a less control than a real OBXa, but with its (cutdown) Osc section that's more than UVI.

It's not more control than most romplers. Singling out a single product to compare it with is a fallacious argument. The Korg M1 has a more sophisticated level of control and it's been out for a very long time.

The only thing that's really notable here are the modeled filters., and it remains to be seen how notable they actually are. I also wouldn't call it a "wide choice." Kontakt has a "wide choice", they just aren't very good, same with Omnisphere.

I really don't know what the point of all this pedantry is, it's a rompler, and a very basic one at that. There is no pitch envelope, there is only one LFO per layer, there is only osc on/off, no independent level/mix, per layer. There is no way to adjust the key-follow behavior of the filter. As far as I can tell there's no inversion of the envelope modulation. There's no adjustable delay of the lfo nor any control over LFO key trigger.

It's exactly what you'd expect from a two oscillator basic rompler.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Don't get all the stuff about ROMplers being limited. When I used hardware, I owned several ROMplers; namely a D-50, K-4 and 2 Emu Proteus rack mounts and I was able to create some very cool sounds from them. I never thought of them as limited at all....guess it depends on your attitude and creativity.

I think it comes from those old boxes that were such a PITA to edit that people just used them as preset boxes. Editing the Proteus boxes without the software editor isn't my idea of fun. However, when you do get that editor software running, it's not bad and you find that the Proteus engine is super flexible. Much more than many other synthesizers. Maybe more than any of the instruments that were used to create Syntronik. I can't speak to the Alesis Andromeda, though. I've heard it's very deep. I've never used one.

Yeah, I think had Opcode Galaxy to edit it or Steinberg had a Universal Editor as well...honestly can't remember. The Proteus was a real workhorse and fun to use...with an editor that is!

Th Andromeda came out after I had switched back to a more guitar-oriented music and I have no experience with it. When I did return to synths the AN1x was my first new one in some time. Loved that one too!