KVR Audio

musiclover55547 · Post by **musiclover55547** » Mon May 29, 2017 12:31 am

pdxindy wrote:
musiclover55547 wrote:One nice addition for Hive's V2 could be an MSEG implementation. The process is not all that complicated, thus it should not add to the CPU load. They could do it one of two ways, unless Uhe creates a unique and efficient workflow:

1 - As in Serum, have each and every LFO fully configurable with the ability to load LFO libraries, i.e. each LFO is essentially an MSEG for all intents and purposes;
2 - As in Dune 2 & Alchemy 2 (as well as Spire's Steppers,) include one additional parameter with its own screen real-estate on top of the existing LFOs. This choice could interfere with Hive's One-Screen approach, though not necessarily. There would be more modulation Sources & Targets if this route were to be taken.

MSEGs are great for Stepping as well as Filter Modulation, to name just two advantages of such functionality.
The step sequencer can function as a modulator.

In Alchemy 2, Dune 2, and Spire, the ARP is a bit different than the MSEGs / Steppers as the latter are configurable via drawing with tools. The ARPs also can be modulation Sources or Targets in each. Hive's is more a hybrid, sort of like Logic's MFX Arpeggiator. However, it's not based on precision like Serum's incorporation of the LFO Tool or Dune 2's MSEGs.

Ironically, Serum does not have a formal Arpeggiator.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon May 29, 2017 7:30 am

When we did Hive we had several competing concepts for "step modulations". There was a trance gate that could also be used as modulation source. It was very difficult for me to abandon this concept (I loved it), but having a step sequencer was the better option, it was simply more flexible and clear. Both together were very confusing.

Note that Hive is our first synth to finally disentangle sequencer and arpeggiator, but lets one have both interact. Additionally - as pdxindy pointed out - the sequencer can run as a separate Mod Source. This is a concept which we've been working on for a long time, it was originally supposed to debute in Diva.

That said, I've looked at Spire the other day. It's got some cool concepts. The oscillators are great in the way that a lot can be achieved with very few controls. The steppers are interesting, but they are not MSEGs. IMHO they are too focussed on quantized modulations.

I always kept the option to add MSEGs to Hive (or ACE/Bazille) in the back of my head, but not before Zebra 3 is finished - because they will be completely reworked. The single biggest reason to do Zebra 3 *is* the MSEGs, which will be unified with oscillator waveforms and Mapper shapes.

Soarer · Post by **Soarer** » Mon May 29, 2017 8:19 am

Hey Urs
Thanks for chiming in. I'd love to see that MSEG for Hive too.
And that sequencer/stepped arp/mod source really should be in Diva too

Can you say anything about your plans for Zebra 3 sound-wise?
Will you improve it's oscillators for a more full (not necessarily fat) sound? I think Hive has this more "full" sound and I heard some sound sets for Virus TI recently and IMO it still has a more full/powerful sound than Hive.
I just think if it will be more powerful sounding it will be the ultimate synth

Just found that Hive is an incredible kick maker! You can get some perfect electronic kicks from it. Best I've heard in any synth. There are some great kick presets in there to use as a starting point.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon May 29, 2017 8:25 am

Soarer wrote:Can you say anything about your plans for Zebra 3 sound-wise?

I'm sure it'll sound great.

sorry, can't say much when it isn't finished yet

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Mon May 29, 2017 9:00 am

Soarer wrote: I heard some sound sets for Virus TI recently and IMO it still has a more full/powerful sound than Hive.

Yes, "powerful" is the word to descibe Virus TI sound. I'm using mine only over USB so there is no DACs involved but still it has very powerful sound with strong presence (sorry for using "unscientific" words again). Synths like Spire or Sylenth may be very close in terms of overall timbre, filter action etc, but still there is certain "fatness" in Virus sound which isn't exactly nailed by them. To my ears Diva has similar qualities to Virus, such as fatness and presence.

spunkmuffin · Post by **spunkmuffin** » Mon May 29, 2017 9:03 am

Whatever you do, please keep the preset loading time fast. I like the way you can listen and flick through presets quickly on all the u-he synths.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon May 29, 2017 9:05 am

spunkmuffin wrote:Whatever you do, please keep the preset loading time fast. I like the way you can listen and flick through presets quickly on all the u-he synths.

Sure, always a priority!

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Mon May 29, 2017 10:17 am

Urs wrote:When we did Hive we had several competing concepts for "step modulations". There was a trance gate that could also be used as modulation source. It was very difficult for me to abandon this concept (I loved it), but having a step sequencer was the better option, it was simply more flexible and clear. Both together were very confusing.

Note that Hive is our first synth to finally disentangle sequencer and arpeggiator, but lets one have both interact. Additionally - as pdxindy pointed out - the sequencer can run as a separate Mod Source. This is a concept which we've been working on for a long time, it was originally supposed to debute in Diva.

That said, I've looked at Spire the other day. It's got some cool concepts. The oscillators are great in the way that a lot can be achieved with very few controls. The steppers are interesting, but they are not MSEGs. IMHO they are too focussed on quantized modulations.

I always kept the option to add MSEGs to Hive (or ACE/Bazille) in the back of my head, but not before Zebra 3 is finished - because they will be completely reworked. The single biggest reason to do Zebra 3 *is* the MSEGs, which will be unified with oscillator waveforms and Mapper shapes.

to be honest the arp and step sequencer were a huge part of my decision to buy Hive, I think it's obvious why in that little doodle My Pad I threw together using three instances of Hive. It's something I do a lot, with my Venom I'll latch the arp and just jam for savage amusement

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Mon May 29, 2017 11:42 am

Urs wrote:
That said, I've looked at Spire the other day. It's got some cool concepts. The oscillators are great in the way that a lot can be achieved with very few controls. The steppers are interesting, but they are not MSEGs. IMHO they are too focussed on quantized modulations.

I use spire and hive together all the time for overly huge cinematic pads hehehe.

It's nice having the two because there is very little over lap. Hive covers the analog side nicely and spire does the digital side nicely and they are both a joy to program. My problem with spire is that I keep wanting to do MORE then just twist a control knob and call it a day, and the mod matrix allows for infinite possibilities, but it's not built to do the FM stuff very well and it sounds like doo doo. *sad face*. So I get really frustrated when I can't do more fm modulations. Luckily I have Bazille, which is brilliant at that kind of stuff. *happy face*.

Ohlson_M · Post by **Ohlson_M** » Mon May 29, 2017 10:17 pm

It´s incredible how CPU efficient Hive really is. It´s a very capable and powerful synth. You can have many instances of it playing, without any problems.

And the preset browser structure is very very good. Never abandon it, ever.

Fleer · Post by **Fleer** » Tue May 30, 2017 12:41 am

recursive one wrote:
Soarer wrote: I heard some sound sets for Virus TI recently and IMO it still has a more full/powerful sound than Hive.
Yes, "powerful" is the word to descibe Virus TI sound. I'm using mine only over USB so there is no DACs involved but still it has very powerful sound with strong presence (sorry for using "unscientific" words again). Synths like Spire or Sylenth may be very close in terms of overall timbre, filter action etc, but still there is certain "fatness" in Virus sound which isn't exactly nailed by them. To my ears Diva has similar qualities to Virus, such as fatness and presence.

I do find that "fatness" and "presence" in Spire, not in Hive.
Maybe coming to Zebra 3?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue May 30, 2017 12:44 am

Fleer wrote: I do find that "fatness" and "presence" in Spire, not in Hive.

I find the 'fatness' and 'presence' in Hive and not Spire... it is good there are different synths for different peoples aesthetic preferences

Soarer · Post by **Soarer** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:28 pm

Testing Spire too at this time and I must say I'm very impressed.
It has a very powerful sound and I find it quite easy to make sounds that fit my music very well.

A few things about it is really perplexing though and I think they still have some work to do.
I'll need to test it some more...

Dasheesh · Post by **Dasheesh** » Tue May 30, 2017 11:09 pm

Yeah soarer Spire is a constant work in progress LoL. They did some funny things right from the go that they can't really un-code at this point. You get what you get, but it's updated regularly. I gots a feeling there will ... evenyually, one day, be a spire two. it is it's own beast. A constant Love/Hate affair.

Soarer · Post by **Soarer** » Tue May 30, 2017 11:31 pm

I see.
What's up with Spire's preset browser? Do I have to save each new presets via the save dialog? One has to save the bank each time too? Maybe I'm getting something wrong but my presets are not saved in the bank when I switch from a factory bank and back to my bank.
This preset browser system feels like a mess.

Getting Hive?