So let me ask you this, ever seen a BT who made negative comments about a product he has worked on?Burillo wrote:again, you're saying "what a surprise" as if the fact that a person is a beta tester should tell me something. it doesn't. just being a beta tester does not automatically imply that you're a shill.JJ_Jettflow wrote:Whether you are paid in cash or products, you are being paid and that will most definitely skew an opinion.
Hers a case;
I went looking for some info on pianos and must have 6 or 7 forums and in every forum, there was the same guy arguing his point that Pianoteq was the best there was. I was swayed enough to try it but not gullible enough to buy it. Then later, I find the guy is a beta tester for Modart....what a surprise.
Sad it once and will say it again, if you are a beta tester, you have a vested interest in the company and the product and you should let people know.
again, the fact that he's a beta tester does not have any hidden implications that you seem to assume there. he's a beta tester, so what? can you tell me which part of Compyfox's words you disagree with, and why? because apparently, your disagreement is basically "he's a beta tester" and "people have opinions". well, shit!murnau wrote:Which arguments? Whats fine for you cannot per se be fine for another individual and vice versa. If you can't deal with it and accidentally you are a beta tester what do you think people should think of your commitment? That it have nothing to do with your attitude here? Seriously?do you have problems with my and Compyfox's argument?
Tokyo Dawn Records rereleases OD DeEdger
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- Banned
- 892 posts since 23 Jan, 2011
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
Exactly.. ..and the other beta testers are acting equal (not only in this thread). All to human i don't have a problem with it rather with denying what is obvious.JJ_Jettflow wrote:So let me ask you this, ever seen a BT who made negative comments about a product he has worked on?
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- KVRAF
- 4711 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
Hey I didn't even write that comment! Please don't misquote mekarumba wrote:what is unprofessional in admitting that we had a problem (with a wrong price in the first few hours after the release) and directly fixing it + saying "sorry" since it was our fault?MogwaiBoy wrote:The announcement with the sudden price increase is laughable. Sorry where was the professionalism again? Went all into the DSP code probably?
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
Indeed as it's a fierce competition.keel wrote:Way too high price. 29-39€ would have been better.
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- KVRer
- 4 posts since 8 Sep, 2009
oh...i'm so sorry! fixed itMogwaiBoy wrote:Hey I didn't even write that comment! Please don't misquote me
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
If you still don't get it i can't help you neither.. ..Mr. Fast Fix..karumba wrote:what is unprofessional in admitting that we had a problem (with a wrong price in the first few hours after the release) and directly fixing it + saying "sorry" since it was our fault?
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- Banned
- 892 posts since 23 Jan, 2011
urosh wrote:Who are other "harassing" beta testers in this thread beside Compyfox?JJ_Jettflow wrote: KVR users being harassed by beta-testers.
I wouldn't know as beta testers seem not to want to reveal themselves.
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- Banned
- 892 posts since 23 Jan, 2011
karumba wrote:what is unprofessional in admitting that we had a problem (with a wrong price in the first few hours after the release) and directly fixing it + saying "sorry" since it was our fault?murnau wrote:The announcement with the sudden price increase is laughable. Sorry where was the professionalism again? Went all into the DSP code probably?
Here is the thing. When the product was priced at 50 euro, how many people bought it. One? Twenty? A hundred? And after the price was changed, we're those buyers that got it for half price contacted and asked to pay the new price? Or did they get to keep at at the lower price?
So if they were allowed to keep it, those people got a real bargin. Everyone else got an apology.
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
Knock knock..Reefius wrote:You just declared war with Compy
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- KVRAF
- 4656 posts since 1 Aug, 2005 from Warszawa, Poland
It's interesting to see how the price change pissed some people off. On the other hand we flash sales going on quite often and no one complains. Funny how it's just a matter of different wording. Something to learn here: next time you make a mistake on the price tag, keep it for 24h and announce a flash sale.JJ_Jettflow wrote:So if they were allowed to keep it, those people got a real bargin. Everyone else got an apology.
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- KVRAF
- 5564 posts since 13 Jan, 2005 from the bottom of my heart
You quote one person but talking about "some people". The price change doesn't affect me as i already said i wouldn't even buy it for 50 bucks.Zombie Queen wrote:It's interesting to see how the price change pissed some people off. On the other hand we flash sales going on quite often and no one complains. Funny how it's just a matter of different wording. Something to learn here: next time you make a mistake on the price tag, keep it for 24h and announce a flash sale.JJ_Jettflow wrote:So if they were allowed to keep it, those people got a real bargin. Everyone else got an apology.
Whoever wants music instead of noise, joy instead of pleasure, soul instead of gold, creative work instead of business, passion instead of foolery, finds no home in this trivial world of ours.
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- KVRAF
- 14658 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Folks... you take a walk for some fresh air in the evening sun, and what happened after you came back? Two pages of quote pyramids, and a public pillory, waiting for the scaffold or burning on the pyre.
GAS already seems to be available in sheer unlimited amount... *yes, that was a pun!*
And once more - why would it matter if the individual in question is responding to general commentary of the users and not praising a plugin blindly?
What is worse in your opinion? Being pushed towards purchasing something, blindly praising a product up and down - and then realizing that this was a wrong decision (see your own commentary about Pianoteq)? Or somebody that is trying to provide a balance to the discussion, different viewpoints?
I can't make that decision for you.
However - in this particular example, you've made up your mind already. So trying to change that would be a useless effort. And not only your mind is set it seems (I'll get to that in a minute).
You proposed this - kick it off! Go on, propose/enforce a new rule set.
Less talking, more action form your side!
Come on!
If you feel being in the wrong, or being harassed (well, obviously - since I'm such a bad person, and I need my regular spanking!), there is a nice little icon to the top right, just beside the user name. It's round, red and has a white "!" in it. You know what that is? That's the report function.
Use it please
Then select "message does not fit any other category..."
Then state in the textblock: "user xyz harasses users abc, he's on a hidden agenda, he's paid for advertising, power abuse", etc. Use your imagination.
Let the admins of this forum decide what to do with the likes of... "us" beta testers.
It's really that simple.
This was the post the kicked off this particular "controversy" (and I do say that loosely) in the first place: viewtopic.php?p=6795381#p6795381
Do you say the same about Hermetech Mastering (who actually made clear on page one that he's a tester), resident compressor guru bmanic or Kontakt Script Wizard/local Kontakt "help-desk"/Hollow Sun legacy keeper EvilDragon?
I think not - because they obviously did "nothing wrong".
Can you please tell me the trigger that directs you folks to these threads? Is it my name only?
Which is... actually borderline masochistic, considering that "so many" users hate my guts. Wouldn't you agree?
Come to think of it... Ew....
I'm all ears!
Who is this "loudmouth" you speak of?
Who is this alleged beta tester?
He or she obviously stepped over the lines and broke the NDA! We can't let that happen.
Time to cut off the "income" - inform the developer that he "broke the rules".
Come on, let's do this! 
[/sarcasm]
In all honesty - who is this "loudmouth"? And can you actually prove his/her position?
I really, really want to know.
And does that really influence you using a certain tool that would otherwise enjoy, or back a specific company, just because of one individual?!
Let's be serious for a moment. What would you actually do, if you'd find out that this individual has been involved in more tools that you currently use, or is an avid supporter/user of a company you like? Something that you didn't know about so far? Would you world fall this far apart?! Would you actually part with the company you supported so far and maybe even burn your computer - because there is just nothing left?
If this really does(!) influence you in such a bad way... that this results in this constant "argumentation", that... response... Then this is more than sad and pitiful.
I'm actually not joking about this...
Seek help in this case!
Where is that chin rub emoji? Oh wait, wrong forum...
Unless it's super obvious that somebody wants to "sell" things to you (you know these people off hand - and yes, there should be put breaks upon them! See IKM a couple of years ago with spamming every thread), there should be absolutely no difference / judgement being made between posts.
Burillo, the only argument I currently see right now, the one that riles up the users (and the sovereign people in here), is that "my" commentary has absolutely no value other than "selling a plugin" (or a company) to the masses. Because "I'm a beta tester", therefore I do nothing more than "promotion", blind praise and shilling. And I better not dare point fingers at users.
This question goes out to the people that accuse me of that - am I wrong with this assumption?
Am I really a shill? Am I trying to "push" you to sell this plugin?
Currently my previous posts are great fodder for the counter-argument people here on KVR... or the resident trolls... resident "finger pointers", etc. We're in the middle of twisting and turning - nothing new.
It doesn't matter that this discussion spawned off of somebody openly saying "why should I use the full version if I can use the demo without restrictions forever" (paraphrasing!). Which frankly pissed me right the f*ck off as somebody that invests both time (as tester for, idea giver for, documentation writer for, as somebody that is a friend of various companies - which I will not disclose, reason: none of your business!) and finances (buying plugins regularly, either directly, via deals, or second hand) into companies.
Since you folks obviously have such a big problem with that, which at this point is more than apparent to be the case, contact Ben[KVR] - state your problem. He should then talk to me - and we both decide if I need to be removed, or I will remove myself completely from KVR Audio or not.
My commentary is (obviously) neither desired, nor accepted. There is this manifest on KVR that I'm only here to stir trouble anyway. And it's always easier to blow things out of proportion, twist and turn words just to get off better (you know who you are!).
Valid, objective argumentation? Rare these days.
So why bother? Grab your pitchforks and hand out the popcorn!
I'm fair towards EVERY company.
If the product is crap, or the company is pulling shenanigans - I mention it. However, worst case scenario is that I take your tools apart to prove what's not working. Or that you're trying to pull some huge stunts you should rather not! (shout outs to: various companies).
If I think that a product is not up to specs - I mention it, even give feedback how to improve it. (shout out to that one metering tool programmer, I've yet to see a suitable fix!)
If there are workarounds to problems, and I can help, I mention it.
If it's a great tool and I know cool tricks, I mention it
It doesn't matter what "status of affiliation" I have - I'm not making any difference here.
Everything else, whether or not I'm a software tester or a regular user, is plainly spoken "none of your business".
<large text section written over the course of 30minutes have been removed to tidy up the post...>
Orange.
Orange who?
Orange you going to let me in?
(else, so many possible "No country for old men" quotes...)
Maybe let us start with this...
"Anton Chigurh: What's the most you ever lost on a coin toss. "
GAS already seems to be available in sheer unlimited amount... *yes, that was a pun!*
The question is... can you prove that they are?!JJ_Jettflow wrote:Sock puppets? I thought those were beta testers as well.
And once more - why would it matter if the individual in question is responding to general commentary of the users and not praising a plugin blindly?
What is worse in your opinion? Being pushed towards purchasing something, blindly praising a product up and down - and then realizing that this was a wrong decision (see your own commentary about Pianoteq)? Or somebody that is trying to provide a balance to the discussion, different viewpoints?
I can't make that decision for you.
However - in this particular example, you've made up your mind already. So trying to change that would be a useless effort. And not only your mind is set it seems (I'll get to that in a minute).
Did you start a thread in Site Stuff yet?JJ_Jettflow wrote:Yeah I ithink that is a great idea; let people know you have a vested interest in this product. And what does your knowledge of the tool have to do with berating people who don't like the price? Or telling people they are breaking the law using an unrestricted, no-time-limit demo that the company themselves offered?
You proposed this - kick it off! Go on, propose/enforce a new rule set.
Less talking, more action form your side!
Come on!
There is a solution for that...JJ_Jettflow wrote:I see it from a different perspective; KVR users being harassed by beta-testers.urosh wrote:You're right about that, this thread would be fine example of harassment that indie developers sometimes have to endure on KVR.murnau wrote:KvR at his best.
If you feel being in the wrong, or being harassed (well, obviously - since I'm such a bad person, and I need my regular spanking!), there is a nice little icon to the top right, just beside the user name. It's round, red and has a white "!" in it. You know what that is? That's the report function.
Use it please
Then select "message does not fit any other category..."
Then state in the textblock: "user xyz harasses users abc, he's on a hidden agenda, he's paid for advertising, power abuse", etc. Use your imagination.
Let the admins of this forum decide what to do with the likes of... "us" beta testers.
It's really that simple.
Oh pleaze...JJ_Jettflow wrote:urosh wrote:Who are other "harassing" beta testers in this thread beside Compyfox?
I wouldn't know as beta testers seem not to want to reveal themselves.
This was the post the kicked off this particular "controversy" (and I do say that loosely) in the first place: viewtopic.php?p=6795381#p6795381
Do you say the same about Hermetech Mastering (who actually made clear on page one that he's a tester), resident compressor guru bmanic or Kontakt Script Wizard/local Kontakt "help-desk"/Hollow Sun legacy keeper EvilDragon?
I think not - because they obviously did "nothing wrong".
Can you please tell me the trigger that directs you folks to these threads? Is it my name only?
Which is... actually borderline masochistic, considering that "so many" users hate my guts. Wouldn't you agree?
Come to think of it... Ew....
Oooooh! Drama! Lemme grab some popcorn!rasmusklump wrote:So:
after Klanghelm this is the next developer I won't buy anything anymore because of the involvement of a certain loudmouth
I'm all ears!
Who is this "loudmouth" you speak of?
Who is this alleged beta tester?
He or she obviously stepped over the lines and broke the NDA! We can't let that happen.
Time to cut off the "income" - inform the developer that he "broke the rules".
Come on, let's do this!
[/sarcasm]
In all honesty - who is this "loudmouth"? And can you actually prove his/her position?
I really, really want to know.
And does that really influence you using a certain tool that would otherwise enjoy, or back a specific company, just because of one individual?!
Let's be serious for a moment. What would you actually do, if you'd find out that this individual has been involved in more tools that you currently use, or is an avid supporter/user of a company you like? Something that you didn't know about so far? Would you world fall this far apart?! Would you actually part with the company you supported so far and maybe even burn your computer - because there is just nothing left?
If this really does(!) influence you in such a bad way... that this results in this constant "argumentation", that... response... Then this is more than sad and pitiful.
I'm actually not joking about this...
Seek help in this case!
Now this is actually a pretty solid argument.Burillo wrote:do you have problems with my and Compyfox's argument? or do you have a problem with Compyfox's argument because he's a beta tester? if it's the former - the fact that he's a beta tester shouldn't even matter, and you bringing it up does not address the substance of his arguments. if it's the latter - then the onus is on you to demonstrate that because Compyfox is a beta tester, he has a vested interest in having this discussion. just saying "he's a beta tester" doesn't provide enough justification to conclude that Compyfox has a vested interest and therefore his opinion/input doesn't matter and his arguments can be disregarded.
Where is that chin rub emoji? Oh wait, wrong forum...
Honestly - that particular topic is none of anyone's business but ultimately the one between the developer and the user in question.Burillo wrote:moreover, i'm pretty sure TDR aren't Compyfox's boss as he's likely not getting paid for beta-testing - most likely it's some sort of NFR-in-exchange-for-testing arrangement (and Compyfox is known to purchase products he's betatesting, so there may not be even that interest). so whichever way you put it, while Compyfox may have an emotional investment in the product, he sure as hell doesn't have an actual financial interest.
Unless it's super obvious that somebody wants to "sell" things to you (you know these people off hand - and yes, there should be put breaks upon them! See IKM a couple of years ago with spamming every thread), there should be absolutely no difference / judgement being made between posts.
Burillo, the only argument I currently see right now, the one that riles up the users (and the sovereign people in here), is that "my" commentary has absolutely no value other than "selling a plugin" (or a company) to the masses. Because "I'm a beta tester", therefore I do nothing more than "promotion", blind praise and shilling. And I better not dare point fingers at users.
This question goes out to the people that accuse me of that - am I wrong with this assumption?
Am I really a shill? Am I trying to "push" you to sell this plugin?
Currently my previous posts are great fodder for the counter-argument people here on KVR... or the resident trolls... resident "finger pointers", etc. We're in the middle of twisting and turning - nothing new.
It doesn't matter that this discussion spawned off of somebody openly saying "why should I use the full version if I can use the demo without restrictions forever" (paraphrasing!). Which frankly pissed me right the f*ck off as somebody that invests both time (as tester for, idea giver for, documentation writer for, as somebody that is a friend of various companies - which I will not disclose, reason: none of your business!) and finances (buying plugins regularly, either directly, via deals, or second hand) into companies.
Since you folks obviously have such a big problem with that, which at this point is more than apparent to be the case, contact Ben[KVR] - state your problem. He should then talk to me - and we both decide if I need to be removed, or I will remove myself completely from KVR Audio or not.
My commentary is (obviously) neither desired, nor accepted. There is this manifest on KVR that I'm only here to stir trouble anyway. And it's always easier to blow things out of proportion, twist and turn words just to get off better (you know who you are!).
Valid, objective argumentation? Rare these days.
So why bother? Grab your pitchforks and hand out the popcorn!
*raises hand*JJ_Jettflow wrote:So let me ask you this, ever seen a BT who made negative comments about a product he has worked on?
I'm fair towards EVERY company.
If the product is crap, or the company is pulling shenanigans - I mention it. However, worst case scenario is that I take your tools apart to prove what's not working. Or that you're trying to pull some huge stunts you should rather not! (shout outs to: various companies).
If I think that a product is not up to specs - I mention it, even give feedback how to improve it. (shout out to that one metering tool programmer, I've yet to see a suitable fix!)
If there are workarounds to problems, and I can help, I mention it.
If it's a great tool and I know cool tricks, I mention it
It doesn't matter what "status of affiliation" I have - I'm not making any difference here.
Everything else, whether or not I'm a software tester or a regular user, is plainly spoken "none of your business".
<large text section written over the course of 30minutes have been removed to tidy up the post...>
Who’s there?murnau wrote:Knock knock..Reefius wrote:You just declared war with Compyfox
Orange.
Orange who?
Orange you going to let me in?
(else, so many possible "No country for old men" quotes...)
Maybe let us start with this...
"Anton Chigurh: What's the most you ever lost on a coin toss. "
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- Banned
- 892 posts since 23 Jan, 2011
Big difference between a planned event like a flash sale that is advertised as such and a mistake but you are right with your solution. Either realise you made a big mistake and either extend that price for a limited time, offer discounts on other titles or even a discount off the next coming product but just to say sorry....Zombie Queen wrote:It's interesting to see how the price change pissed some people off. On the other hand we flash sales going on quite often and no one complains. Funny how it's just a matter of different wording. Something to learn here: next time you make a mistake on the price tag, keep it for 24h and announce a flash sale.JJ_Jettflow wrote:So if they were allowed to keep it, those people got a real bargin. Everyone else got an apology.
If you want to sell pro -level products at pro-level prices, then come up with pro-level solutions when you mess up.
