Zappa - what a tight music arranger

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incubus wrote:Right winger? :lol: Wow. I mean, just wow.
US libertarian = right wing

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It's time to split this off for HPC then.

Zappa said he might be kind of a Libertarian before it was a thing. I hate to say this, but FZ did not read much.
I saw a post at zappa.com where a guy claimed to have interviewed him ca. 1980. He likened FZ's anti-communist pro-capitalist views to Any Rand and asked him if he was familiar. He'd never heard of Ayn Rand. "I hate to read, it's boring."

Later, late 80s, the actual Libertarian Party asked Frank to run for POTUS. He characterized their platform as internally incoherent and told them no way.

Now, at YouTube it's so typical to see rightwingers, mainly the Libertarian stripe claim Frank as their own.
"Lifetime NRA member", per Mark Farner's supposed claim, while he hated that shit. The last piece on the last album he prepared for release featured recordings of automatic weapons being fired in the Valley. The end of Civilization, not that challengingly subtle. But I've found those people have never much listened to the work.

"(...) Phaze III finishes with Waffenspiel (weapon play in German), a recording of homeowners in the San Fernando Valley shooting their automatic weapons skyward at New Year in 1987. What should be celebratory fireworks has become a manifestation of property-owner paranoia and aggression. The pained expression on Zappa´s face as he described these "assholes" to me said everything about his art's relation to society (...)" - Ben Watson

Republicans is fine if you're a multi-millionaire
Democrats is fair if all you own is what you wear
Neither of them's really right 'cause neither of 'em care
'bout that hot plate heaven 'cause they ain't been there

Nature didn't put me here and neither did my fate
It musta been some even ol' Republican candidate!
He's over there in Washington, but I wish he was in Hell
'cause I'm in hot-plate heaven at the Green Hotel

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:dog: do I have to say it?
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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When the lie's so big
And the fog's so thick
And the facts disappear
The Republican trick
Can be played out again
People, please tell me when
We'll be rid of these men

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On2XH3Ya1tQ

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Hink wrote::dog: do I have to say it?
What did I say? So split if off. I'm here to have conversations, FML.

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no I'll just lock it, I'm not obligated to split it but you are obligated to follow posting rules.
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Hink wrote:no I'll just lock it, I'm not obligated to split it but you are obligated to follow posting rules.
+1 f**k the politics! I think that we can talk about music and music history without that. I don't think that makes mentioning attitudes about unions totally off topic, but I'm not a mod.

Honestly, I think the problem comes when people are overly concerned about how talking about someone else's political leanings aligns or doesn't align with their own.

So Frank Zappa didn't like unions, that's just a discussion about Zappa and his history. If you can't talk about that without feeling forced to express your own political likes or dislikes, maybe you're a part of the problem? I'm not talking about anyone in particular, I just get tired of adult conversations being derailed by people addicted to politics.

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I am not busy
I'm free to travel
Where are you going
Maybe you'll take me
I hope you do

https://youtu.be/KHE4KZoQIqk

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Hink wrote:no I'll just lock it, I'm not obligated to split it but you are obligated to follow posting rules.
Your choices are of no real moment to me. After the unfair warning, I found caring isn't of any purchase for me.
NB: I never start a political discussion off of topic.

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TOPIC BEING Zappa - what a tight music arranger

these 1980 recordings posted by zappainfrance sound real good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN2nRKOGznU

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sfxsound3 wrote:THE king of kitsch! You know, the dirty, perverted, overdone, gross and utterly not funny type of kitsch. His musical talent was totally nullified by his... 'character'.
Yeah, that's my take on his attempts at humor as well, it's an instant turnoff. While I liked that instrumental track a few posts ago, and honestly, that is the first time I think that I've ever said that about anything by Zappa, I think the challenge will be a bit more to find a "song" of his that I like?

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The hospital plans (your brother drew 'em all)
You ran the paper 'n the Charity Ball
Every day on the third or fourth page
There you was, you was quite the rage

Somehow, you was all kinda cheap 'n wrong
Just like in a lotta small towns
where folks like you
hang around too long
and pass out jobs to your relatives 'n such
So you all keeps a lot, 'cept nobody else
ever gets too much to speak of
So what? What can you say?

So long as the trash gets picked up
So long as the trash gets locked up
Just so the trash don't stack up
Someday you won't be on page three
Or page four anymore


I had little exposure to the 1980 bands. In the smaller ones, Arthur Barrow really had some freedom to move around. Absolutely fantastic bass here. EXTREMELY tight.

https://youtu.be/aiIxt37-pD8?t=6m24s

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ghettosynth wrote:
sfxsound3 wrote:THE king of kitsch! You know, the dirty, perverted, overdone, gross and utterly not funny type of kitsch. His musical talent was totally nullified by his... 'character'.
Yeah, that's my take on his attempts at humor as well, it's an instant turnoff. While I liked that instrumental track a few posts ago, and honestly, that is the first time I think that I've ever said that about anything by Zappa, I think the challenge will be a bit more to find a "song" of his that I like?
Zappa put out 60 albums over 30+ years. To say anything meaningful about his music takes a bit of effort. And of course, who wants to put in the effort? It's not like anyone is going to know or care.

I myself have never been a fan of Zappa's silly humor songs like Titties and Beer, Valley Girl, Dynamo Hum or Dancin Fool. But such songs are what casual listeners wanted to hear.

Personally, I always preferred the much more compelling instrumenentals that he wrote in great profusion. From Music for Guitar and Low Budget Orchestra, to the Black Page, to Dupree's Paradise to What's New in Baltimore, to Sinister Footwear II.

The guy wrote a ton of music. Most of it was idiosyncratic, organically complex and not really of this world. So he wrote some dorky novelty songs to support his hobby and make a living. And so....people judge him for these songs, while continuing to feel vague hate for all of the music that he wrote that they simply can not understand

It always amazes me how hostile people are to music that is any more complex than a Michael Jackson song.

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herodotus wrote:
It always amazes me how hostile people are to music that is any more complex than a Michael Jackson song.
Everyone has their own background and just because they don't like something doesn't mean they aren't " good enough" to do so. For me Zappa sounds incredibly conventional, very much like the naughty schoolboy trying to attract attention so someone will notice he is really clever. But at best he is still trying to emulate his heroes through a series of clever and heartfelt pastiches .
But I get how wonderfully tight the various ensembles were.

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herodotus wrote: Zappa put out 60 albums over 30+ years. To say anything meaningful about his music takes a bit of effort. And of course, who wants to put in the effort? It's not like anyone is going to know or care.
...
It always amazes me how hostile people are to music that is any more complex than a Michael Jackson song.
What always amazes me is how quickly someone will try to dismiss valid criticism that they don't agree with. Any hostility that you perceive from me is largely towards his sophomoric humor and overly cynical attitude. However, I agree with other posters that complexity for its own sake isn't necessarily interesting. There is plenty of music that is "more complex than a Michael Jackson song" that I think is marvelous and I have zero interest in feeding the trolls here so you'll just have to guess what that might be.

I've already heard more of Zappa than he deserves based on a reasonable statistical sample. From that, I've heard exactly one track that I can honestly say that I like. If I never listened to another track I feel like I've heard enough to roughly categorize him.

Sorry mate, I simply don't like his music for the most part and this thread has largely left that unchanged. You're not going to change that opinion with fallacy.

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