New Apple iMac Pro - 18 cores, built for the pros

[fmr]

Never questioned that, you went way south, I'm the guy that said if you are trying to make comparable thing, than do it properly, nothing more, nothing less, stop dragging in me in some pointless arguments I never made or questioned, thank you.

Doing it properly is building (assembling) a machine with a comparable performance. Since we agreed that the display is NOT part of the computer, and does NOT have an impact on the performace, we have to leave that OUT of the equation.

It's not users fault if Apple chooses an expensive display, glue it to the computer, and raise the price exponentially because of the luxury. They do that with other components too, BTW, presenting them as advantages, when it's debatable (would you prefer to have more USB3 ports and less Thunderbolt ports or the opposite?). If I, as a user, was given an option, I would prefer a case with just the CPU and main components, and a display connected to it, as it was in the old days.

So, when an experienced user decides to assemble a new machine, he leaves the display OUT of the equation. Why? Because HE ALREADY HAVE ONE (OR TWO), that will serve him well with the new machine. He also leaves the HDs out of the equation most of the time, because he already have them.

He even may reuse the same case, in some circumstances.

The Mac user will have to throw away EVERYTHING, and buy EVERYTHING again, TRASHING things he could very well reuse. This, BTW. is also an aggresion to the environment. Where is the ReUSE, here?

We are comparing computer performances. So, lets confine the comparison to the elements that have an impact on the performance. The display is a peripheral, so, the display is an extra that doesn't belong to the equation.

[Zexila]

Doing it properly is building (assembling) a machine with a comparable performance. Since we agreed that the display is NOT part of the computer, and does NOT have an impact on the performace, we have to leave that OUT of the equation.

Sorry, everything goes into equation and if someone have burning urge to prove a point in this thread about 5k iMac, than he should better make comparable PC or just find another appropriate thread for his arguments.

The display is a peripheral, so, the display is an extra that doesn't belong to the equation.

Sorry, in a thread where comparable Mac can't go without 5k screen, screen is in equation, see you in Mac Pro thread with your arguments.

[stratology]

Sorry to be so blunt, but anyone who thinks that Mac users buy Macs for the looks is an idiot.

[fmr]

Doing it properly is building (assembling) a machine with a comparable performance. Since we agreed that the display is NOT part of the computer, and does NOT have an impact on the performace, we have to leave that OUT of the equation.

Sorry, everything goes into equation and if someone have burning urge to prove a point in this thread about 5k iMac, than he should better make comparable PC or just find another appropriate thread for his arguments.

The display is a peripheral, so, the display is an extra that doesn't belong to the equation.

Sorry, in a thread where comparable Mac can't go without 5k screen, screen is in equation, see you in Mac Pro thread with your arguments.

It's not a 5K Mac, it's a "computer" called iMac Pro. Noone uses 5K displays, except Apple. It's an Apple "thing" ("another" Apple "thing"). It's also a dispensable luxury. It's not users fault that Apple throw these down their throat. It's the same thing with Thunderbolt, as it was with FireWire, as it was with PCI-X, and with NuBus, and so on and so on. Apple as a long history of adopting and abandoning "standards", leaving the users orphaned.

We are comparing ratios cost/performance of similarly powerful computers. Again, 5K displays are NOT needed, therefore, a comparable computer DOES NOT need a 5K display. If something, that's a con, because that's another luxury that goes out when the computer gets obsolete.

You know that, without that peripheral, which is expensive because only Apple uses it, the price of the computer will drop substantially. Yet, from the user POV, the 5K display is absolutely dispensable.

[Zexila]

Sorry, I was pretty clear and you clearly have no reason to have this debate with me, so let's drop it.

[fmr]

Sorry, I was pretty clear and you clearly have no reason to have this debate with me, so let's drop it.

Fine, I am becoming tired of it anyway. I think any unbiased reader will understand the subject and will be able to judge and make an informed decision.

I actually don't give a damn if Apple will sell this or not. I gave up of the company for quite some time

[Zexila]

Sorry, I was pretty clear and you clearly have no reason to have this debate with me, so let's drop it.

Fine, I am becoming tired of it anyway. I think any unbiased reader will understand the subject and will be able to judge and make an informed decision.

Exactly.

I actually don't give a damn if Apple will sell this or not. I gave up of the company for quite some time

Me too.

All the best.

[iTzPrime]

Doing it properly is building (assembling) a machine with a comparable performance. Since we agreed that the display is NOT part of the computer, and does NOT have an impact on the performace, we have to leave that OUT of the equation.

Sorry, everything goes into equation and if someone have burning urge to prove a point in this thread about 5k iMac, than he should better make comparable PC or just find another appropriate thread for his arguments.

The display is a peripheral, so, the display is an extra that doesn't belong to the equation.

Sorry, in a thread where comparable Mac can't go without 5k screen, screen is in equation, see you in Mac Pro thread with your arguments.

It's not a 5K Mac, it's a "computer" called iMac Pro. Noone uses 5K displays, except Apple. It's an Apple "thing" ("another" Apple "thing"). It's also a dispensable luxury. It's not users fault that Apple throw these down their throat. It's the same thing with Thunderbolt, as it was with FireWire, as it was with PCI-X, and with NuBus, and so on and so on. Apple as a long history of adopting and abandoning "standards", leaving the users orphaned.

We are comparing ratios cost/performance of similarly powerful computers. Again, 5K displays are NOT needed, therefore, a comparable computer DOES NOT need a 5K display. If something, that's a con, because that's another luxury that goes out when the computer gets obsolete.

You know that, without that peripheral, which is expensive because only Apple uses it, the price of the computer will drop substantially. Yet, from the user POV, the 5K display is absolutely dispensable.

Lots of photograph and film editing people I know use the 5k display and love it. It is quite cheap compared to others. Just because you don't use it doesnt mean others don't either.
If you compare the price of the iMac with a comparable PC please reduce the price by 1.5k because of the display.
Not a fan of the port-changing from apple either, but your viewpoint is a bit to narrow.

[Zexila]

If you compare the price of the iMac with a comparable PC please reduce the price by 1.5k because of the display.

Yeah, also guess worth pointing out that Apple keyboard and mouse cost over 200 bucks together, so throwing 20 bucks comparable combo is not gonna cut it, also budget/cheap case, fans and PSU, that stuff add up to the cost, especially when you cheap out on MoBo.

Either way, Mac's are more expensive, but you get realistic figure by how much if you do it fairly and properly.

[fmr]

If you compare the price of the iMac with a comparable PC please reduce the price by 1.5k because of the display.

Yeah, also guess worth pointing out that Apple keyboard and mouse cost over 200 bucks together, so throwing 20 bucks comparable combo is not gonna cut it, also budget/cheap case, fans and PSU, that stuff add up to the cost, especially when you cheap out on MoBo.

Either way, Mac's are more expensive, but you get realistic figure if you actually do it fairly and properly.

So, we keep going on spreading misinformation? Apple keyboard and mouse cost over 200 bucks together? Sure, but do they worth it? Those are badly designed components that I immediately replaced when I bought my iMac, and never used. I am using an old extended keyboard from another Mac connected to the USB port (the current keyboard doesn't even have a numeric keypad) and a regular USB mouse (Microsoft, BTW) conected to it's USB bus. 200 buck for that shit

I didn't want them, but I had no option. I have them here collecting dust. If you give me 100 bucks I will gladly sell you mine. Do you want them? I also have a friend who immediately put aside the Apple keyboard - go figure...

Fans, PSU, case? What the hell are you talking about? Those components are plain regular in Macs too - actually, the PSU I have in my current Windows machine is superior. The same goes to the case. Every time you talk, you come up with another myth about Apple. There's nothing inside a Mac that's not plain regular components that we can easily find in many other computers, and buy in the market. The display is a luxury Apple includes to make it different, and, because it is visible, justify the unjustified price they ask for the computers (like they actually do with anything else, like phones, tablets, etc.) They are greedy bastards.

If the display is so expensive, why don't they build the same models with plain HD displays and sell them priced accordingly? Why? I believe the majority of Mac users would gladly pay less 1.5K for a Mac. I know I would.

[fmr]

Lots of photograph and film editing people I know use the 5k display and love it. It is quite cheap compared to others. Just because you don't use it doesnt mean others don't either.
If you compare the price of the iMac with a comparable PC please reduce the price by 1.5k because of the display.

Now, you seem to contradict yourself. The display costs 1.5K but is quite cheap compared to others? What others? Links please, so we can judge by ourselves.

And I don't have to reduce anything, as long as I put a display in it (which I, as the majority around here, already have, BTW - we can REUSE the display we already have). I don't give a shit about 1.5K displays, anyway. I am no photographer nor film editor. Nor are many other "pros". You may have not noticed, but this is a forum about audio and audio plug-ins. I believe that video and photography, if they interest the majority of people around here, are just as hobbys. And, at least to me, money costs, and waste hurts.

[Zexila]

So, we keep going on spreading misinformation?

No, you are clearly way out of touch with my whole approach to this thread from the start.

Apple keyboard and mouse cost over 200 bucks together? Sure, but do they worth it?

Again you with that, don't care if they are, but if you are going to make comparable thing, than take that into consideration, because they add up to the prices. Stop doing personal preference arguments, because guess what, some folks do find them worth it, some don't, either way it's worthless argument.

Fans, PSU? What the hell are you talking about? Those components are plain regular in Macs too. Every time you talk, you come with another myth about Apple. Ther's nothin inside a Mac that's not plain regular components that we can easily find in any other computers.

Did I say they are magical, I only said take into consideration they aren't cheap/budget, because I seen people cheap out on this stuff when they are making comparable thing, so please start reading.

Can you comprehend what I'm talking about and stop dragging me in some arguments and debates just because you feel like it, it's rude at this point, there's nothing more to my statements than just do it properly, don't care about personal preference, don't care about your preference, just if you want to prove a point and make comparable thing, do it for the sake of it, that's all, nothing less, nothing more.

[fmr]

Did I say they are magical, I only said take into consideration they aren't cheap/budget, because I seen people cheap out on this stuff when they are making comparable thing, so please start reading.

You didn't say, but you did imply that. You keep patronizing PC users, insinuating they usually choose "cheapo" components (whatever that is). Guess what? Many of us, Windows users who assemble their own machines actually KNOW what we are doing. It happens that we have a WIDE choice of components, and we can choose the best ones that fit. Actually, I usually choose components that are BETTER than the ones inside Apple cases - yet they are cheaper. So, stop implying that Windows users are a bunch of ignorants.

Can you comprehend what I'm talking about and stop dragging me in some arguments and debates just because you feel like it, it's rude at this point, there's nothing more to my statements than just do it properly, don't care about personal preference, don't care about your preference, just if you want to prove a point and make comparable thing, do it for the sake of it, that's all, nothing less, nothing more.

When we are talking about a computer, we have to leave the peripherals OUT of the equation. Why? Exactly because, besides their inherent quality, there is a very strong and important argument - personal preferences. And how good does a alpha-numeric keyboard have to be? Are you going to perform any special and crucial tasks with it? The same goes for the mouse. I choose the mouse according to the behavior and the dimensions of it, considering my hand. I can do it because I have the OPTION. Apple only gives you ONE option, and they say it costs € 89,00 (price in Apple Store Portugal). The extended keyboard is priced € 149,00. Yet I can perform exactly the same tasks with a mouse that costs € 20,00 and a keyboard that costs € 49,00. They are not "cheapo", they are good components, that perform the tasks they were designed for reliably for years.

Why do I have to artificially raise the price of my system just to match the (artificially raised) price of Apple components, of which one of them (the mouse) I would never buy, anyway, and don't want even offered? This is the myths that Apple keeps spreading. I had (still have, somewhere around) a mouse that came with my Power Mac G5 Quad that is a horrible piece of junk, that I never used, and Apple claimed was the best mouse in the world

[Zexila]

You didn't say, but you did imply that. You keep patronizing PC users, insinuating they usually choose "cheapo" components (whatever that is).

Please start reading, I said some folks that are doing this comparable arguments, can you really just stop trying to squeeze me into one of your holes and actually read and understand what I'm talking about, if not, just drop it.

Why do I have to artificially raise the price of my system just to match the (artificially raised) price of Apple components, of which one of them (the mouse) I would never buy, anyway, and don't want even offered?

Because if you are wanting to prove an argument how much comparable thing actually cost, than you need to do it like that, so again, for the sake of proving something, do it properly, you go and build waverer thing you want, don't care, but don't show up in this thread calling it comparable to 5k iMac when it's clearly not, end of discussion.

[fmr]

Because if you are wanting to prove an argument how much comparable thing actually cost, than you need to do it like that, so again, for the sake of proving something, do it properly, you go and build waverer thing you want, don't care, but don't show up in this thread calling it comparable to 5k iMac when it's clearly not, end of discussion.

You say it clearly not, I say it clearly do. Now, can we agree on disagree?

You value whatever you do, I value whatever I do. Clearly, if all people would have the same line of thought I have, Apple would be bankrupt by now. Fortunately for them, some people seem to think like you.

For me, as long as I build a computer that outperforms the iMac Pro, I have achieved my goal, no matter how many "k's" I have or miss. And I can assemble one way cheaper, and using better components. Fortunately, in Windows world, noone forces me to spend a fortune in a display I don't want/need.