Cubase 9 vs Logic X

[goldenhelix]

Been working with Cubase 5 for a long time now and really need to upgrade because, while it does run, it only runs in 32 bit and most plugins (including Kontakt) really need 64 bit. I'm now weighing the decision of whether to stick with Cubase or transition to Logic. A few questions:

For those who have used both, which do you prefer overall? If you could summarize some brief points of comparison you think stand out, that would be useful.

I have read some people saying that Logic is finicky about certain plugins. Has anyone experienced this and if so, which plugins?

Apparently Cubase 9 is not officially supported on Mavericks, although I have read most people saying it will work. Anyone use it on an older operating system like this?

One thing I like a lot about Cubase is the ability to edit multiple MIDI tracks on a single editor and be able to click on a particular MIDI line and have it edit that track only while still looking at the others. This is really useful for working out note relationships in orchestrated parts. Does Logic have this ability?

Thanks!

[pdxindy]

My guess is that the latest Logic Pro X will not run on Mavericks.

[goldenhelix]

According to my reading, Logic Pro X will run on Mavericks but you have to use I believe 10.2.2 and not 10.2.3 or above (if memory serves me on the exact version changeover - not sure why they didn't go to 10.3 for post-Maverick, but that's Apple for you).

[LGK_Dude]

I own and use both on OS 10.9.5 - Logic 10.2.2 and Cubase 8.5 (though I know of people who run Cubase 9 just fine on 10.9.5). I personally prefer the workflow of Cubase, though with every (free) Logic update they are bridging the gap. Given that you have been on Cubase 5 for so long, I'm assuming that this is a hobby for you and money is tight? If so, then I HIGHLY recommend switching to Logic pro over upgrading Cubase. Its the best deal in DAW's. Since its been released its added a TON of features to all users for free, many of which are directly taken from Cubase and ones that made me switch to Cubase in the first place (midi plugins, articulation switching, marcos (logics has a very simple version of this now) as well as adding awesome synths like Camel Audio Alchemy, updated plugins, etc. In that time I've paid $300+ just in updates for Cubase, and the "new features" they are adding are arguably less useful than Logic, who continue to provide updates and support for free. Truly amazing deal!

That being said, if you are use to the Cubase workflow and money is no object, stick with the DAW you know. Cubase IMO is still the superior DAW, but it comes at a cost. I personally cant live without the control room anymore as I run Sonarworks plugins on my master. I also enjoy Cubases rack workflow as well as their media bay for organizing my sounds and samples, the ability for VST plugins to receive midi, arranging & midi editing features, I prefer their vocal tuning ability where you can actually view multiple vocal tracks in a single window, allowing for easy manipulation of chords, etc. However, I could make music in either DAW just fine, and continue to use both as the project dictates (I collaborate with other composers so I use a combination of Cubase, Logic, and Digital Performer) but for my own songs I always open Cubase first as to me, though no where near perfect, I can deal with its quirks and it has a better workflow for my work.

I dont think Logic offers a demo, but for sure Cubase 9 does. If you have any other specific questions let me know.

One thing I like a lot about Cubase is the ability to edit multiple MIDI tracks on a single editor and be able to click on a particular MIDI line and have it edit that track only while still looking at the others. This is really useful for working out note relationships in orchestrated parts. Does Logic have this ability?

Short answer is yes. You just select all the tracks you want to open, then double click on them to get into the midi editor. From there if you double click the background you see all the parts, and if you want to edit a specific part you double click on that note and it will only show that midi part. https://support.apple.com/kb/PH24431?vi ... cale=en_US

As for your question about plugins, the key here is that VST's do not work in Logic. Logic uses AU format. Most plugins you buy come with both, but some do not. Make sure all your plugins work, or you can get a wrapper like BlueCat Patchwork which runs both AU and VST's.

[goldenhelix]

Thanks for your detailed reply! You are partially correct in that it's a hobby (i.e. I don't get paid much if anything for my music right now, but I am pretty serious about it), although the main reason I haven't upgraded to a newer version of Cubase is that I have mostly been using Ableton for a while now. Recently I have gotten more into learning to do scoring and I've been finding that I rather prefer many things about working with MIDI in Cubase. I still love Ableton but sometimes the workflow drives me crazy when it comes to composing MIDI in the Arranger window (constantly having to switch parts to see what's going on, inability to see multiple parts at once, needing to shift-space to play from last location unlike pretty much ever other DAW on the planet).

I actually should have known that Logic only uses AU.. that might be a deal-breaker for me, but we'll see. I might go through my plugins and inventory the ones which only have VST versions and see if it's worth it. I do love Alchemy (I have the actual older Camel Audio version before they were bought by Apple) and would love to use the newer probably more streamlined version.

The cost isn't a huge issue for me because to upgrade to Cubase 9 is $299 vs. $199 for Logic, so it's not a huge difference - if I had to pay the full price for Cubase, that might be a different story. But certainly saving a $100 wouldn't be terrible either

There are probably a ton of features in Cubase that I wouldn't realistically use (I never used the control room, like, ever), but I am pretty used to the workflow, and presumably being able to open up my old projects in that would be an attractive feature (I highly doubt Logic will open a Cubase project file, but maybe I'm wrong).

Thanks again, you've given me a lot of good info and some things to think about.

[pdxindy]

I actually should have known that Logic only uses AU.. that might be a deal-breaker for me, but we'll see. I might go through my plugins and inventory the ones which only have VST versions and see if it's worth it. I do love Alchemy (I have the actual older Camel Audio version before they were bought by Apple) and would love to use the newer probably more streamlined version.

The cost isn't a huge issue for me because to upgrade to Cubase 9 is $299 vs. $199 for Logic, so it's not a huge difference - if I had to pay the full price for Cubase, that might be a different story. But certainly saving a $100 wouldn't be terrible either

Every plugin I use has an AU version. So using Logic works fine for me.

The current version of Alchemy in Logic is significantly advanced from what was available from Camel. It is the V2 that they never got out the door, and then some improvements on that. I'm a big fan of Sculpture in Logic also.

Logic is really an unbeatable value. Yes, it is only $100 more for the Cubase upgrade, but then their upgrade path is a fairly regular ongoing expense. Logic is receiving significant and meaningful upgrades and for no additional cost. Don't know how long that will go on, but for sure the long term cost is lower.

Cubase is overall better, but they are both so capable that each of them easily exceeds my needs. Since that is the case, I went with the cheaper (dongle-free) option. Plus I like Alchemy and Sculpture better than what one gets in Cubase.

[goldenhelix]

Yeah, the dongle issue is also one I've considered. I already have one, of course, so it's not that big of a deal but I specifically didn't install Cubase or my other Steinberg products on my laptop because I don't want to bring the dongle around with me and possibly lose it somewhere or have it sticking out of the side of the laptop and accidentally get snapped off or something. Plus, USB real estate is not something I really want to use up just to prove to my computer that I own a piece of software when most software can tell this without such an archaic device.

The free updates do sound attractive, and don't think I wouldn't like to get my hands on an upgraded version of Alchemy Haven't heard of Sculpture, but I'll check that out and maybe that will add incentive to choose Logic. I'm sure most of my plugins have AU versions, but it will mean re-installing quite a lot of things (whenever I get an installer that has both, I generally don't bother installing the AU version, something I will regret should I end up going with Logic).

Thanks for your input!

[bustedfist]

Re; Dongle issues, a short USB extension cable reduces the risk of snap off. Another thought is, a Cubase 9 Pro license allows you access to Essentials, which uses the soft eLicenser. A proper request to the right people at Steinberg will get you it for free.


I've got a complete Cubase version library via the method.

[nonnaci]

I vote Cubase for its cross-compatibility between Windows/Mac. As for plugins, both DAWs will scan them and perform a series of test across different configurations (e.g. different sample rates, latency, parameters read/writes) and blacklist any that fails. Logic's auval tool has a longer history breaking compatibility with older plugins due to these tests, Cubase's sentinel was only recently implemented in 9.0.

[IRBY]

You want Cubase. Logic traps you into a cycle of future expensive Apple purchases. When I first started using DAWs seriously, I had a MBP, and even though I primarily used Studio One, I STUPIDLY used the AU version of every plugin I owned on all the tracks in my projects. At the time, I thought there was some advantage to using the AU version of plugins over the VST version, because I was on an Apple. The VST versions were right there on my computer, and Studio One doesn't care what version I use, but I was an idiot. At some point, my machine could not handle the size of many of my projects, so I couldn't finish them without a computer upgrade. Guess what? I used ALL the AU plug ins on all my projects, so I was locked into buying another mac. So, this past Christmas, I got a GROTESQUELY OVERPRICED, $4500 MBP that sucks ass. Needless to say, all of my new work is done with the VST version of things, so that I have greater freedom of machines now and in the future. I wasn't even locked into Logic and I STILL trapped myself in the expensive Apple ecosystem. I could have gotten a $1K PC with better performance than this new MBP. By using Logic, you are doubly locking yourself into the limited, proprietary, EXPENSIVE Apple system. There's certainly NOTHING special about Logic to justify choosing it over any other DAW. Logic may be a good price, BUT... it requires one hell of an expensive dongle!

[LGK_Dude]

Re; Dongle issues, a short USB extension cable reduces the risk of snap off. Another thought is, a Cubase 9 Pro license allows you access to Essentials, which uses the soft eLicenser. A proper request to the right people at Steinberg will get you it for free.


I've got a complete Cubase version library via the method.

Wow! I didn't know that! Is that something new for Cubase 9? Can you PM me the info for these "right people" as I would love a copy of essentials for my laptop!

[pdxindy]

According to my reading, Logic Pro X will run on Mavericks but you have to use I believe 10.2.2 and not 10.2.3 or above (if memory serves me on the exact version changeover - not sure why they didn't go to 10.3 for post-Maverick, but that's Apple for you).

I would plan on upgrading the OS to continue to be able to use the latest versions of Logic (which have been adding some solid functionality)... especially since they are not costing anything additional.

[SJ_Digriz]

I will start by disclosing that I'm on Windows and don't use Logic. With that noted, I would both encourage and WARN you before going from C5 to C9.

C9 has changed the interface significantly with single window panes (called zones). IMO they suck, but other people seem to like them. The color scheme of the new mixer is horrendous IMO. But, other people seem to be ok with it. But, just be prepared for a learning curve. That said, C9 is awesome in a hundred other ways. I just wanted to make sure you know that you will have a moderately updated UI. Lots of good in that, but some not so good. I still think C9 is the right choice, but I can't compare it to Logic... so YMMV.

Advice, if you go C9 go ahead and buy the update sometime around oct/nov-ish. If you do, hold off on registering (using) until the 9.5 announcement. Then register during the grace period to get 9.5 update for free.

[lfm]

One things to consider is when is Steinberg dropping certain OS versions.

This year as Halion 6 was releases they tried to drop windows 7 - but riots among users made them backoff that.
But that scared the shit out of me - asking support when Cubase is dropping Windows 7?
They were not allowed to comment on that, as they said.

So is Cubase 9.5 going to drop windows 7, or Cubase 10. Probably soon.

This was windows, but consider this policy when doing your choice - how will Mac be handled?

So I switched to Reaper 5 - and no regrets so far. It even runs on my 14 years old former daw for XP.

[dupont]

You want Cubase. Logic traps you into a cycle of future expensive Apple purchases. When I first started using DAWs seriously, I had a MBP, and even though I primarily used Studio One, I STUPIDLY used the AU version of every plugin I owned on all the tracks in my projects. At the time, I thought there was some advantage to using the AU version of plugins over the VST version, because I was on an Apple. The VST versions were right there on my computer, and Studio One doesn't care what version I use, but I was an idiot. At some point, my machine could not handle the size of many of my projects, so I couldn't finish them without a computer upgrade. Guess what? I used ALL the AU plug ins on all my projects, so I was locked into buying another mac. So, this past Christmas, I got a GROTESQUELY OVERPRICED, $4500 MBP that sucks ass. Needless to say, all of my new work is done with the VST version of things, so that I have greater freedom of machines now and in the future. I wasn't even locked into Logic and I STILL trapped myself in the expensive Apple ecosystem. I could have gotten a $1K PC with better performance than this new MBP. By using Logic, you are doubly locking yourself into the limited, proprietary, EXPENSIVE Apple system. There's certainly NOTHING special about Logic to justify choosing it over any other DAW. Logic may be a good price, BUT... it requires one hell of an expensive dongle!

That's why i switched to Reaper, to go out of the overpriced, overrated mac ecosystem.
And also from Logic poor editing parameter enveloppe, reaper AI is far superior.