New Apple iMac Pro - 18 cores, built for the pros

[keyman_sam]

Ahh, the denial of these blind PC fanboys. Somehow insulting my knowledge makes them feel better about themselves.

I'm neither a fanboy of the PC nor a Mac (which I owned for all of 20 days before returning it due to overheating). As a PC user, I simply acknowledge the pitfalls of a PC and the obvious advantages of a Mac. If you're a fanboy you're blinded by your own firm beliefs. Try to think of things from the other side, for a change. Shelling out MORE money to get a BETTER product doesn't make you a sucker. If PCs were as great as you claim to be, ADK, Pcaudiolabs and many others would be out of business. Yet somehow they exist...hmm, I wonder why.

My lenovo got random BSODs when it updated to Windows 10. A little googling showed plenty of lenovo users with the same issue. Lenovo/MS could care less. I had to use one-button recovery to get back to Windows 8.1. With Apple there's only one company to turn to. Just because you can't afford one, don't try to belittle those who can.

[fluffy_little_something]

The last time I got a blue screen on my W7 PC was years ago when one of my RAM modules was broken. That was my fault, though, as it was cheap Kingston RAM.

For developers Windows is also better because it is much more consistent across versions. Some developers spend a lot of time implementing the weird changes between OSX versions.

[Zexila]

For developers Windows is also better because it is much more consistent across versions. Some developers spend a lot of time implementing the weird changes between OSX versions.

But OS X runs great on more consistent/tested hardware combo's and it's easier to troubleshoot it than vast variety of DIY Windows PC combos, there's that too.

[fmr]

My lenovo got random BSODs when it updated to Windows 10. A little googling showed plenty of lenovo users with the same issue. Lenovo/MS could care less. I had to use one-button recovery to get back to Windows 8.1. With Apple there's only one company to turn to. Just because you can't afford one, don't try to belittle those who can.

What a moron

[keyman_sam]

My lenovo got random BSODs when it updated to Windows 10. A little googling showed plenty of lenovo users with the same issue. Lenovo/MS could care less. I had to use one-button recovery to get back to Windows 8.1. With Apple there's only one company to turn to. Just because you can't afford one, don't try to belittle those who can.

What a moron

Couldn't engage in a civil debate without name-calling? You didn't address any of my points, instead resorting to personal attacks. I don't think any discussion between us is going to be fruitful for either of us, so let's leave it at that. Have a good day.

To get back ON topic, any other news about this Mac? When I spec out my dream PC from a DAW builder, it comes to the same cost, so switching to Mac in the future is merely a matter of logistics (i.e. Compatibility with existing projects, How well Cubase runs, etc). I LOVE Cubase and though I see tests showing it runs fine on mac, there are some third-party tools (that I rely on) that are Windows only (the drag and drop tool for Cubase let's you drag to/from Cubase from/to elsewhere).

[fmr]

My lenovo got random BSODs when it updated to Windows 10. A little googling showed plenty of lenovo users with the same issue. Lenovo/MS could care less. I had to use one-button recovery to get back to Windows 8.1. With Apple there's only one company to turn to. Just because you can't afford one, don't try to belittle those who can.

What a moron

Couldn't engage in a civil debate without name-calling? You didn't address any of my points, instead resorting to personal attacks. I don't think any discussion between us is going to be fruitful for either of us, so let's leave it at that. Have a good day.

What is there to address? You said that you installed Windows 10 and your Lenovo started to get random BSODs. Then you searched the net and you read that there are other Lenovo users with the same issue. You used the Recovery option (a feature that, BTW, you don't have in Mac OS, if you upgrade to a new system) and reinstated Windows 8.1.

So, what is the matter? You started to complain about Windows 7 machine not coming back from sleep. Now you write about your Lenovo, who was updated to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1 and had issues. And you blame... Windows, of course. Not the machines, not the builders, not the user... Windows is the evil to blame for.

I have nothing to address here. I think that case is pretty much self-explanatory. Get a mac... Be happy.

[metamorphosis]

Windows 7 is an outdated OS. Remaining on an outdated OS, regardless of outdated Windows or macOS, is always a security risk.

Nope.

Windows 10 is out of date too?
http://www.darkreading.com/endpoint/wan ... id/1329049

As of March all windows versions were patched against Wannacry. That article essentially talks about hacked copies of win10.

[stratology]

Windows 7 is an outdated OS. Remaining on an outdated OS, regardless of outdated Windows or macOS, is always a security risk.

Nope.

I explained in detail why running any 8 year old OS, regardless of whether it's 'patched' or 'supported', is a security risk.

'Nope' is not a strong, detailed argument that invalidates any of the points I made.


Please kindly explain why running W7 would be more secure than running W10.

[chk071]

Windows 7 is an outdated OS. Remaining on an outdated OS, regardless of outdated Windows or macOS, is always a security risk.

Nope.

I explained in detail why running any 8 year old OS, regardless of whether it's 'patched' or 'supported', is a security risk.

Such a general statement is complete nonsense, if you totally disregard the technical base of the OS. A new OS could have exactly the same base as a former OS, and just be different in some tiny details. Your arguments really make no sense. Especially as most OS's DO have the same base as former OS's.

[robotmonkey]

Sorry to be so blunt, but anyone who thinks that Mac users buy Macs for the looks is an idiot.

Hardly. This is actually one of the main points every Mac owner I have ever known makes.

[keyman_sam]

So, what is the matter? You started to complain about Windows 7 machine not coming back from sleep. Now you write about your Lenovo, who was updated to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1 and had issues. And you blame... Windows, of course. Not the machines, not the builders, not the user... Windows is the evil to blame for.

I have nothing to address here. I think that case is pretty much self-explanatory. Get a mac... Be happy.

You still don't understand my point. I already said Windows is no worse or better than OS X. If OS X were allowed to run on everything, it would have the same reputation too.

The problem is everything AROUND Windows. There's no tight integration. Apple has it, in many case using the same standard components that Win PC builders use. And so the end result is a more stable system than a hit-and-miss windows based PC (like lenovo, dell, or any other manufacturer you can think of). It's NOT Windows' fault. It's the nature of the beast. Now do you get it?

[robotmonkey]

Dear fmr,

ON PAPER Windows is no worse than or better than OS X. Life doesn't run on paper. In real life Apple has control over A-Z of their components AND software and this gives them a huge competitive advantage. If your neighbor's Mac works well, chances are yours will too. With PCs it's largely hit or miss. This coming from a PC user who's used PCs for 20 years.

So right now one of my windows 7 machine refuses to wake up from sleep (fans spin up thats it). How do I troubleshoot? Or am I too dumb that I can't see the very obvious solution? Please enlighten me, sir.

I'll take it one step further - if you end up resolving my issue your coffee is on me.

This is another Apple myth that has its roots in the middle of 1990's. It's complete bollocks now.

At that time Apple did have an advantage because it had tight control over custom hardware and software. This was why everything was running smoothly and was stable most of the time. PC as an open system had pretty chaotic ecosystem with many players and not a lot of standardization. So you had to be careful when choosing components for your PC as all kinds of compatibility problems were many. This was obviously mitigated by companies like Dell or Gateway2000 that put together top of the line PC's with verified and tested components.

But we are not in the 1990's anymore. PC market is now well standardized on everything from hardware to driver frameworks. You can now get any of the off the shelf components and put it into any PC without fearing any kind of problems. Also pretty much every piece of electronics in modern day Apple is the same off the shelf type you'd find in most PC's. Only in the former case it's sold at a premium price. For example, the same off the shelf Hynix RAM at Apple store costs 5 times more than in your regular vendors. And it's not even some kind of premium RAM you would be able to get for your PC. So yes, Mac are overpriced and there's no stability advantage whatsoever these days.

[robotmonkey]

It is a freaking shame that apple doesn't provide an upgrade to their mac pro line since forever.

There was an upgrade to the Mac Pro only last month.
(But you do have a point, of course..)


When Apple held the roundtable to announce the newly designed future Mac pro, the Apple reps mentioned that around 80% of professional Mac users use laptops, most of the remaining pros use iMacs, and that Mac Pros are used by a low single percentage (probably around 1%) of pro users.

That's because there has literally been no development for ages in desktop Macs for pro market.

[robotmonkey]

As for this supposed (because you are lacking credibility imo) 'DAW builder', perhaps you should have consulted a 'PC repair guy' instead. one guy's specialty is putting things together and selling them. the other guy's specialty is fixing a vast variety of PC setups. At any rate, there's a distinction to be made between finding a solution, and diagnosing the problem. If your 'DAW builder' could do neither, I'm not surprised. I'm definitely smarter than that guy. Go to a PC repair guy next time.

This! Even in the days of great PC wilderness when Macs indeed had a stability and standardization advantage, there were several big PC vendors who offered exactly the same experience with best of class components that were tested to work together.

PC is now super standardized and the chance of encountering any kind of incompatibility or instability issues is pretty slim. Admittedly it's still there somewhat considering how much hardware and software exists for PC compared Apple world where you have 0 choice for any components.

And you can still go the Dell, Lenovo, HP or some specialized PC builder route who has done the work for you in putting together the best components, and who offers equally as good support and service. In my experience Dell support for their high end systems beats Apple any day, by the way.

[keyman_sam]

As for this supposed (because you are lacking credibility imo) 'DAW builder', perhaps you should have consulted a 'PC repair guy' instead. one guy's specialty is putting things together and selling them. the other guy's specialty is fixing a vast variety of PC setups. At any rate, there's a distinction to be made between finding a solution, and diagnosing the problem. If your 'DAW builder' could do neither, I'm not surprised. I'm definitely smarter than that guy. Go to a PC repair guy next time.

This! Even in the days of great PC wilderness when Macs indeed had a stability and standardization advantage, there were several big PC vendors who offered exactly the same experience with best of class components that were tested to work together.

PC is now super standardized and the chance of encountering any kind of incompatibility or instability issues is pretty slim. Admittedly it's still there somewhat considering how much hardware and software exists for PC compared Apple world where you have 0 choice for any components.

And you can still go the Dell, Lenovo, HP or some specialized PC builder route who has done the work for you in putting together the best components, and who offers equally as good support and service. In my experience Dell support for their high end systems beats Apple any day, by the way.

Go to X, Go to Y, should have done Z, could have done XY + Z. These are exactly the problems with the PC world. With a Mac you go to one store for any problem at all, no matter what.

My lenovo is a "modern" laptop from 2013. It still is plagued by problems with Windows 10. Not to mention other issues like display flickering. It now runs windows 8.1 after a factory reset but still I get the screen flickering issue. I've just learned to deal with it.

Apple simply has a higher standard for everything - design, engineering, craftsmanship, etc. They attract and employ the best talents in the biz, and that reflects in their products. Windows is a great OS (and I'd work on Win 7 over anything else) but the rampant issues with Win-based systems are just a nature of the beast. Be it dell, hp, lenovo or whatever.