If Roland made a D50 vst emulation, would you purchase it?

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If Roland made a D50 vst emulation, would you purchase it?

Yes, as long as it was reasonably priced.
164
45%
Maybe, I would consider purchasing it.
65
18%
No, I don't have any interest in such a product.
98
27%
Fish
39
11%
 
Total votes: 366

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fmr wrote:
ghettosynth wrote:
fmr wrote:
Ingonator wrote:I just found a manual for the VC-1 D-50 expansion card for the V-Synth and both the additional 28 PCM waveforms (see the list posted above) and the patches in the 6 presets banks (= 384 patches) included with the D-50 plugin seem to be similar to that in the VC-1 D-50 expansion card.
Yes, I was looking to the list you published, and I can confirm that the extra PCM waveforms are the same.

Makes sense right, it's a more recent product and they probably already had to generalize the original code base to run inside of a "host." They just ported it to a new host.
And this also reminds me of another thing. I tried to use SoundDiver to edit the D-50 inside V-Synth, assuming that it would be recognized, but I was unable to make it so.

So, perhaps that SysEx part was already removed from the D-50 card, and therefore, when they ported the code, the SysEx was still absent. Actually, the only disppointment I had with the V-Synth was the lack of an editor to remotely program it.
I used this: http://www.vst-control.de/D50v.html

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fmr wrote:And this also reminds me of another thing. I tried to use SoundDiver to edit the D-50 inside V-Synth, assuming that it would be recognized, but I was unable to make it so.

So, perhaps that SysEx part was already removed from the D-50 card, and therefore, when they ported the code, the SysEx was still absent. Actually, the only disppointment I had with the V-Synth was the lack of an editor to remotely program it.
According to the user manuals, VC-1 recognizes SysEx messages and even the model ID is the same as D-50.
Didn't dig deeper, but looks like the card should work with original D-50 editors, so it's strange.

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Ingonator wrote:I just found a manual for the VC-1 D-50 expansion card for the V-Synth and both the additional 28 PCM waveforms (see the list posted above) and the patches in the 6 presets banks (= 384 patches) included with the D-50 plugin seem to be similar to that in the VC-1 D-50 expansion card.
The second preset bank of the new D-50 plugin (bank name "2 Preset", first patch "Brass Tacks") usees some of the 28 additional PCM waves originally included in VC-1 expansion card.
Obviously that bank was not included in the original D-50 and D-550 synths as those missed teh additional PCM waveforms.
Like already mentioned all 6 preset banks of the plugin also seemed to be included with the VC-1 D-50 expansion.
Last edited by Ingonator on Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Kumi_27 wrote:
fmr wrote:And this also reminds me of another thing. I tried to use SoundDiver to edit the D-50 inside V-Synth, assuming that it would be recognized, but I was unable to make it so.

So, perhaps that SysEx part was already removed from the D-50 card, and therefore, when they ported the code, the SysEx was still absent. Actually, the only disppointment I had with the V-Synth was the lack of an editor to remotely program it.
According to the user manuals, VC-1 recognizes SysEx messages and even the model ID is the same as D-50.
Didn't dig deeper, but looks like the card should work with original D-50 editors, so it's strange.
Hmm... Have to check then. I remember when I tried I wasn't able to have it recognized by SoundDiver.
Fernando (FMR)

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I'm sure I've missed many valuable replies as I'd read the first 10 pages and wanted to chime in before having to read all of them.

With regards to "owning sounds" No one can copyright a tone. If they did you'd have to pay a licensing fee to the manufacturer every time you played in public or recorded your music. They do hold trademark and copyrights to the naming of the sound. Which is why someone like Leo Fender who wanted to make a telecaster while owning G&L used the name ASAT. And Why Line 6 renames amp and guitar model yet describes them with reference to what is being recreated in the description.

With regards to D50, M1, Wavestation. Owned all three. Now own the KLC vst versions of the M1 and Wavestation respectively. While they do faithfully recreate the sounds of their series they are in fact much easier to edit than the originals. I'd love a D50

With regards to aliasing. Roland will never go back to aliasing, neither will Korg. Dave Smith on the other hand likes the character aliasing brings. A too polished tone can sound clinical and dry. While an aliased sound can sound a bit edgier or if followed up with an analog compressoion and/or tape saturation can sound rounder, fuller and softer depending on how you implement those effects.
Synapse Audio Dune 3 I'm in love

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tapper mike wrote:I'm sure I've missed many valuable replies as I'd read the first 10 pages and wanted to chime in before having to read all of them.
You should at least watch that video to get an idea of what we're talking about on the last 10 pages :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qeJaXMNvM8

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sinemotor wrote:
tapper mike wrote:I'm sure I've missed many valuable replies as I'd read the first 10 pages and wanted to chime in before having to read all of them.
You should at least watch that video to get an idea of what we're talking about on the last 10 pages :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qeJaXMNvM8
wow. somehow disappointed. you can hear a remarkable difference of their so called PERFECT recreation.... roland. wtf
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So, the main question. Can you rip the pcm waves?

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As i found (and posted here) yesterday and today the additional 28 PCM waves and also the 6 preset banks in the plugin seem to be based on those in the VC-1 expansion for V-Synth.

Due to that it might be possibke that also the code for the emulation is based on the VC-1 and not on an original D-50.
In comparisons i found about about D-50 and VC-1 the result semed to be there there were difference between those two too.

Besides all that the new D-50 plugin still sounds great for me and includes all original parameters plus the additional 28 PCM waveforms from the VC-1 expansion card. Hopefuly also Sysex import could and will be added in the future.

FWIW if the low end of the plugin is not enough for you like with every synth you could add an external EQ or a bass boost plugin (for example i often use Waves One Knob Phatter for that purpose).
The D-50 with both layers (Uppper/Lower) also has a built-in EQ (Low and High bands) and you might add or adjust this too to get the desired result.



Concerning a different hardware/software comparison:

FWIW i own a Korg Wavestation EX hardware since around 13 years and own the plugin for around 11 yeras too and while in most patches they could sound almost identical there are many patches where this did not really seem to be the case (especially patches that got a bigger low end like analog like ones).
FWIW i had also owned a Wavestation SR rack in the past too (even before i got the the EX) and that one seemed to be more "hi-fi" than the older Wavesrtation EX. The plugin seems to be more based on the SR than on the original Wavestation and the plugin also includes all banks included in the SR (previous Wavestations included much less ROM presets, actually the EX only has one ROM bank, 2 RAM banks and an additional RAM or ROM memory card could be added).

Somehow the differences between the Wavestation EX, the Wavestation SR rack and the Wavestation plugin seem to be comparable to those between the original D-50, the VC-1 expansion and the new D-50 VST plugin.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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AnX wrote:So, the main question. Can you rip the pcm waves?
You know that the first 100 are out there on the web and if you're going to rip them then you might as well just download them.

They're useful for experimenting with D50 sounds in Reaktor, or even Absynth, because they're not multisamples.

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Ingonator wrote: Due to that it might be possibke that also the code for the emulation is based on the VC-1 and not on an original D-50.
Possibily, I mentioned this yesterday. Since the code is newer and contains 128 waves, it's likely.

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People also need to take into account that D50 uses different analog output stage to what your computer is using, which will ALWAYS result in somewhat different sound from the original. So much about that.

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sinemotor wrote:
tapper mike wrote:I'm sure I've missed many valuable replies as I'd read the first 10 pages and wanted to chime in before having to read all of them.
You should at least watch that video to get an idea of what we're talking about on the last 10 pages :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qeJaXMNvM8
Those do NOT sound identical to me and I'm not even a D50 fan. The plugin sounds very compressed constricted. This could be differences owing to his recording setup, or it might also be that the sampling playback isn't emulated properly.

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EvilDragon wrote:People also need to take into account that D50 uses different analog output stage to what your computer is using, which will ALWAYS result in somewhat different sound from the original. So much about that.
Yes, but what I'm hearing sounds more dramatic than just late 80s DAC+opamp vs contemporary soundcard.

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ghettosynth wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:People also need to take into account that D50 uses different analog output stage to what your computer is using, which will ALWAYS result in somewhat different sound from the original. So much about that.
Yes, but what I'm hearing sounds more dramatic than just late 80s DAC+opamp vs contemporary soundcard.
FWIW, the waveforms shown in the DAW are quite different, when we would expect they to be similar. Also, the D-50 (hardware) recording, which envelopes are much quieter, has to have the volume calibrated to a much lower value than the software D-50, which is stranfe, since the waveforms of the latter would suggest they would be way louder.

This is weird
Fernando (FMR)

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