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soundmodel
KVRian
 
515 posts since 28 May, 2010, from Finland

Postby soundmodel; Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:26 am Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

Since I've been thinking that, rather than reinventing the wheel, I could use some freeware plug-in "inside" my own plug-in in order to gain a certain block of processing. E.g. rather than coding a distortion unit into a synth one could "embed" an already made good distortion VST into one's own VST.
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
 
21220 posts since 27 Jul, 2005, from the wilds of wanny

Postby thecontrolcentre; Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:30 am Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

You'd need permission from the original developer / copyright holder I presume ... most freeware includes a EULA.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25130 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:35 am Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

Its a breach of copyright to redistribute any software without permission. Even public domain(*) software has effectively had to have had that permission (redistribute without limitation) granted in some way.

And as for your implied assumption regarding 'freeware' - letting you have something for zero cost is not the same as waiving one's copyright over that thing.

(* not the same as open source)
Last edited by whyterabbyt on Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ghettosynth
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9827 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:36 am Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

"Freeware" is insufficient by itself. The issue is whether you have a "license" to share a product or not. Off of the top of my head I can't think of a single "freeware" plugin that isn't also open source that has such a license. That doesn't mean that they don't exist, but it's certainly not the norm.

Even open source software may or may not give you this right (without permission).
soundmodel
KVRian
 
515 posts since 28 May, 2010, from Finland

Postby soundmodel; Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:06 am Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

What if one writes a VST host that allows the user to load the plug-in he/she wishes?
Then it's not breaching copyright, because the developer merely allows a slot where to load it, but doesn't ship any other people's products.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
25130 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:34 am Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

Fluky wrote:What if one writes a VST host that allows the user to load the plug-in he/she wishes?


What if one does? Exactly what issue do you think there is with not redistributing anyone else's software?

(but I must say, its kind of amusing that writing VST hosting is mooted as the easy alternative to writing one's own distortion algorithm.)
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soundmodel
KVRian
 
515 posts since 28 May, 2010, from Finland

Postby soundmodel; Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:35 pm Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

whyterabbyt wrote:
Fluky wrote:What if one writes a VST host that allows the user to load the plug-in he/she wishes?


What if one does? Exactly what issue do you think there is with not redistributing anyone else's software?

(but I must say, its kind of amusing that writing VST hosting is mooted as the easy alternative to writing one's own distortion algorithm.)


I don't understand why study and try to emulate something that someone else already did.
I don't know how long it would take to be able to replicate some very fine distortion algo. So rather use it than try to reinvent the wheel.

If one can find really high-quality implementations already, then I think it's more reasonable to allow the use of those rather than write a more shittier one.
ghettosynth
KVRAF
 
9827 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Postby ghettosynth; Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:45 pm Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

Fluky wrote:What if one writes a VST host that allows the user to load the plug-in he/she wishes?
Then it's not breaching copyright, because the developer merely allows a slot where to load it, but doesn't ship any other people's products.


Why is that even a question? Suppose you had a "modular" preset that included Plugin Alliance's bx_greenscreamer. The name of the plugin would be a part of the preset and when it went to load it may not be able to find the plugin. So, in that slot you could say "plugin not found" and give the user the option to either locate the plugin or load a different plugin. Now, how the controls would map is a different question.

But that's not violating anyone's copyright. TBH though, this sounds like a ton of work for not much gain. The probability that one wouldn't have at least one plugin in a modular preset is going to be pretty damned high thus driving whether or not the idea is all that useful in the first place?

What exactly is the problem that you're trying to solve here? Do you think that there's actually a need for people to share presets across arbitrary plugins that doesn't already exist? There are already multiple mux like products that can load anyone's plugins.

If I were you, I'd back away from looking for technological solutions to a problem that you're inventing and instead talk to people about what kinds of problems that they've had in this area and how they are solving them.
soundmodel
KVRian
 
515 posts since 28 May, 2010, from Finland

Postby soundmodel; Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:50 pm Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

I was thinking of designing channel strips with "recommended plug-ins", but also have the option of putting in something else.

My idea was not to write yet another channel strip plug-in, but rather merely provide layouts for channel strips.

I.e. I would give the user effect orders that are reasonable, provide reasonable cross-over filtering for segmenting the sound, but the main processors (e.g. a transient designer) would come elsewhere.

The idea here would not be an entirely new product, but rather a handy and tailored tool. Not least, because I've found that many people prefer plug-ins that "assist" in dialing the sound.
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aciddose
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11530 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:09 pm Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

I intended to develop a similar tool in 2010 although with modularity and much wider potential application to allow a user to create "effect presets" bundled with all the synthesizers and whatever else they might need.

It wouldn't be practical for the purpose of sharing these configurations but it would be extremely useful to allow someone to set up a "sound" comprised of many different plug-ins and store that in a single preset which could be loaded on any host in a simple and incredibly flexible interface that appears to the host as a single "instrument" plug-in.

I decided the outcome of such a project would be disaster. The situation is far, far worse in the market today. Good luck.
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soundmodel
KVRian
 
515 posts since 28 May, 2010, from Finland

Postby soundmodel; Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:11 pm Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

Yeah well, I'm not sure whether such is needed. A user that knows his/her way around a DAW or can utilize tools such as Plogue Bidule doesn't really need such tool.

But then again, sometimes I think that some plug-ins are meant to trick "noobs" into buying something that they think will give them pro sound.
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aciddose
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11530 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:39 pm Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

"Sometimes" ?

That's a significant portion of the market summed up in one sentence. I'd replace the occurrences of "some" with "all" though.

"I think that all plug-ins are meant to trick "noobs" into buying everything that they think will give them pro sound."
Xhip Synthesizer v8 (WinXP, Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
Xhip Effects bundle v6.7 New: Resizable/skinnable/configurable GUI. (Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
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syntonica
KVRist
 
270 posts since 24 Sep, 2014, from Specific Northwest

Postby syntonica; Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:38 pm Re: Is it legal to ship freeware plug-ins with one's own plug-in? Or even embed them?

Fluky wrote:
I don't understand why study and try to emulate something that someone else already did.
I don't know how long it would take to be able to replicate some very fine distortion algo. So rather use it than try to reinvent the wheel.


Sometimes, that algorithm is a single line of code. Depending on the source of the algorithm, you can easily lift it and roll it into your own code. Often, due to faster computers, there are better ways of doing these things and the algorithm needs to be updated anyway.

Regardless, look at the license associated with the plugin. Some may be freely swiped, some with accreditation and some, not at all. Basically, dont be an a-hole and steal stuff outright. Even if it's pd, you still should give props.

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