Physical modelling in 2017

[aMUSEd]

So let me get this right, you get this AND Alchemy in Logic? All you are missing is true algorithmic analog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rIcWE6Nhns

yeah, well it does have ES2 (wavetable, VA, some FM) which is a very capable and great sounding synth, although not in the league of say Diva for the VA side. There's also the newer Retro Synth:

https://www.apple.com/uk/logic-pro/plugins-and-sounds/

Logic is very complete - it also has imho the best virtual B3 organ emulation apart from the old Creamware one. But the synths (and sampler) desperately need updates.

[pdxindy]

So let me get this right, you get this AND Alchemy in Logic?

Logic is an absurdly good value! You also get their excellent convolution reverb and of course plenty of other stuff.

Since getting a Linnstrument, I have pretty much only been using Logic. Apple keeps on putting out good updates and for no additional cost.

And it is worth getting Logic just for Sculpture!!

[pdxindy]

And this is sort of vocal modeling:
http://wolfgangpalm.com/phonem.html

Phonem is one of my favorites... you can get some beautiful vocal sounds... plus it also has a VpC mode so it works with MPE controllers.

[Ed A.]

Sculpture is also my favorite physical modeling synth, and as mentioned, it would be great to see a Sculpture 2.
I can get some bizarre sounds from Sculpture that still have an "organic" quality to them.
It being included in Logic is a really good deal for about $300, but it's even more amazing that it's also available with all the other Logic synths and effects in MainStage for under $30.

[ghettosynth]

Sculpture is also my favorite physical modeling synth, and as mentioned, it would be great to see a Sculpture 2.
I can get some bizarre sounds from Sculpture that still have an "organic" quality to them.
It being included in Logic is a really good deal for about $300, but it's even more amazing that it's also available with all the other Logic synths and effects in MainStage for under $30.

Yep! If you don't have logic, mainstage is worth the $30 just for Redmatica and the sample content.

[Ed A.]

Logic is very complete - it also has imho the best virtual B3 organ emulation apart from the old Creamware one. But the synths (and sampler) desperately need updates.

I'm hoping that Apple updates all the synths and effects to resize as vector graphics like Aalto & Kaivo can. Or at least offer several bitmapped interface size selections. I can resize the bitmapped GUI's now by dragging the bottom right, but it makes for a fuzzy image.

[xhunaudio]

IronAxe (Electric Guitar)

http://www.xhun-audio.com/site/xhun.php?page=ironaxe

Sorry for the "self-promotion"

[Ed A.]

check this out, for instance :

https://physicalaudio.co.uk/PA3.html

That sounds great! It has some real potential and its GUI is very clean and minimal. I'll be buying it as soon as it's out of beta.

[Gribs]

I'm planning on checking put Madrona Labs Kaivo, but was wondering what else was out there that's based on physical modelling, but takes a step up from the previous generation?

Kaivo is great

Is it capable of going beyond the sounds I hear on youtube demos (including Madrona's own channel)? I think the various demos all sound similar. I have an Aalto license but have not sprung for Kaivo because of this.

[pdxindy]

Sculpture is also my favorite physical modeling synth, and as mentioned, it would be great to see a Sculpture 2.
I can get some bizarre sounds from Sculpture that still have an "organic" quality to them.
It being included in Logic is a really good deal for about $300, but it's even more amazing that it's also available with all the other Logic synths and effects in MainStage for under $30.

Logic is only $200

[Ed A.]

IronAxe (Electric Guitar)

http://www.xhun-audio.com/site/xhun.php?page=ironaxe

Sorry for the "self-promotion"

No Mac version?

[cron]

I'm planning on checking put Madrona Labs Kaivo, but was wondering what else was out there that's based on physical modelling, but takes a step up from the previous generation?

Kaivo is great

Is it capable of going beyond the sounds I hear on youtube demos (including Madrona's own channel)? I think the various demos all sound similar. I have an Aalto license but have not sprung for Kaivo because of this.

I haven't checked out the sound demos, but I've had Kaivo for ages and it really depends on which bits of it you're using and how you're using them.

There are basically 3 ways to get playable pitch out of Kaivo: repeating grains at audio frequencies (e.g. 440 times per second for A), using samples that already contain pitched tones and repitching the grains themselves, or using the resonator. It just depends on where you've routed pitch from the key section (although you can route to any combo of these or even elsewhere).

I suspect a lot of the sameyness you're hearing comes from patches that generate pitch primarily with the resonator module. I think anything that involves a resonator has a very particular sound regardless of how you set it up, much like how comb filters or even flangers have 'a sound' regardless of the settings you're using. While the 6 resonator modes produce fairly different sounds, they all sound like 'a resonator'.

You can do some pretty awesome stuff in Kaivo just using the granulator though. I've made a few custom audio files for the granulator involving several channels of sine harmonics, and rapidly cutting across the channels makes really lovely 'shimmering' timbres. Plugging those into the resonator/body modules takes that sound even further into space.

I certainly wouldn't recommend Kaivo just for the granular section though, as the resonator is a huge part of the instrument. There are better options out there if you just want to experiment with granulation. Maybe give the demo a whirl and see what you think. Give the manual a read too. Madrona have the best manuals in the biz, and a quick look through it should make fairly apparent the kind of things you can do. On this end, I'd certainly buy it again as the unreal 'acousticy' sounds you can achieve with ease fill a big gap in my sound palette. Those kind of tones are all I use it for, and I tend not to try pushing it outside that comfort zone.

Someone mentioned the CPU hit earlier. Granted it is a CPU hog, but it's worth bearing in mind that (IIRC) CPU on patch load is the maximum you'll see while playing that patch. It won't increase as you play more notes - only if you increase the maximum polyphony settings. Can't remember the details, but Randy explained the need to have all voices constantly running in Kaivo (whether they're actively sounding or not) over on the Madrona forum a while back.

[xhunaudio]

IronAxe (Electric Guitar)

http://www.xhun-audio.com/site/xhun.php?page=ironaxe

Sorry for the "self-promotion"

No Mac version?

As happened with LittleOne (version 3.0), Mac version for IronAxe (version 2.0) will come soon.

[himalaya]

check this out, for instance :

https://physicalaudio.co.uk/PA3.html

Wow, a new comer to the Physical Modelling world. So exciting!

[himalaya]

For me Pianoteq is something of a benchmark in terms of sound and sophistication for physical modelling based instruments. I regularly use the AAS derived physical modelling instruments in Live, but they are a long way from the cutting edge and sound pretty crude compared to Pianoteq.

I'm planning on checking put Madrona Labs Kaivo, but was wondering what else was out there that's based on physical modelling, but takes a step up from the previous generation?

Pianoteq is definitely an example of state-of-the art acoustic modelling synthesis. Another company that is just as good is Audio Modelling (previously Sample Modelling). Their latest instruments from the SWAM engine are great examples of that: the Violin, Cello, Flute and a few others, are all based on Physical Modelling and do not use samples like some older SWAM instruments.

Don't forget to check out Zebra2 as it has some cool modules that can be used for Physical Modelling sounds with ease. UVI Falcon also has some basic Physical Modelling modules, although I haven't been able to check it out properly yet.

As a side note, the Eagan Matrix, the sound engine used with the Haken Continuum, has sound modules which can be used for Physical Modelling sounds as well.