Why EQ a sound doesn't change timbre?

[Nowhk]

I hope you listen your music across different setups, right? Do you "listen" the differences of timbre also between setup (minor changes)?

Sure. And then what to do with it? Often nothing.
But when I hear something totally unexpected and unwanted, I have found an issue in my mix in the category "does not translate well between systems" and I have to think of a solution to fix it, find a compromise so it sounds reasonable across multiple systems.

Is that what you mean?

Yes, exactly! "Find a compromise" here means to make somethings "variable"
Still not sure if the others people here agree with this, anyway

It's important to accept that you essentially lose control over how your music is heard the moment you put it out there.

Sure I accept this. But I'm realizing that what I do is just the "base" of a project (the song). The "variable" factor is added by listener, intentionally or not. Even if you are experienced and trained, its conceptually a guess!!!

And the funny thing is that if in a future I play my own song on different setups, sounding result is (for some aspects) unexpected (yeah, still similar, but different anyway), even if its about somethings made by me I find it bizzare...

The game seems to be "learn as best as possible how to translate what you consider important on different systems and just enjoy the sounding results on every playback".

[ghettosynth]

I hope you listen your music across different setups, right? Do you "listen" the differences of timbre also between setup (minor changes)?

Sure. And then what to do with it? Often nothing.
But when I hear something totally unexpected and unwanted, I have found an issue in my mix in the category "does not translate well between systems" and I have to think of a solution to fix it, find a compromise so it sounds reasonable across multiple systems.

Is that what you mean?

Yes, exactly! "Find a compromise" here means to make somethings "variable"
Still not sure if the others people here agree with this, anyway

Seriously? What do you think that you're discovering here? We all know what speakers do to spectrum and that they're not all the same. You seem to be elevating these differences to some sort of religion.

It's important to accept that you essentially lose control over how your music is heard the moment you put it out there.

Sure I accept this. But I'm realizing that what I do is just the "base" of a project (the song). The "variable" factor is added by listener, intentionally or not. Even if you are experienced and trained, its conceptually a guess!!!

The experienced and trained know how to reduce the variability much more than the inexperienced. Your language seems to be trying to express this as something that has much more variability than it does. I know that when someone plays a track with deep bass on their laptop that they're going to lose the bass, if they like that kind of music, SO DO THEY! It's not a guess, one can reasonably predict how different playback systems will impact a sound. Of course there's variance. Of course there's some inherent unpredictability, so what?

However, this concept of a base + variability is silly and virtually useless. You target particular playback systems based on your intended audience.

And the funny thing is that if in a future I play my own song on different setups, sounding result is (for some aspects) unexpected (yeah, still similar, but different anyway), even if its about somethings made by me I find it bizzare...

No, it's neither funny nor bizarre, it is, however, f**king obvious.

The game seems to be "learn as best as possible how to translate what you consider important on different systems and just enjoy the sounding results on every playback".

Really? You don't say?

[Nowhk]

You seem to be elevating these differences to some sort of religion.

Your language seems to be trying to express this as something that has much more variability than it does.

Did you hear the sounding result from the previous video about spekars I've posted? Really do you get "small" differences? For me they are very huge, sorry

It's not a guess, one can reasonably predict how different playback systems will impact a sound.

So when you "design" some sort of "guitar+distortion" chain as shown in the video above, you have in mind the different timbre/impact/ecc this chain will "sound" (as the whole) across those speakers? Aren't some "colors" not-considerated as result and somethings manifest such as "surprire" when you hear it? Are all the variances well know in your work-intent? If so, for me you are a real god dude.

Of course there's variance. Of course there's some inherent unpredictability, so what?

So nothing. For you maybe was "obvious", for me it wasn't. Can you blame me?

However, this concept of a base + variability is silly and virtually useless. You target particular playback systems based on your intended audience.

You target a "macro-categories" of playback systems (laptop? headphone? club? flat? hifi?), not every single components situations (which add your own colors), come on...

No, it's neither funny nor bizarre, it is, however, f**king obvious.

Really? You don't say?

Again, for me it wasn't. "I know that I know nothing".
I'm pretty sure that people like whyterabbyt still don't agree with this, and "listen" to the same things through the different speakers used in the posted video posted.
So "maybe" it's not so "f**king obvious" as you think.

I still don't know what you think about, since you never reply to that question: do you "listen" the same "sound" across those video's different speakers?

[ghettosynth]

....snip...bunch of nonsense....

Really? You don't say?

Again, for me it wasn't. "I know that I know nothing".
I'm pretty sure that people like whyterabbyt still don't agree with this, and "listen" to the same things through the different speakers used in the posted video posted.
So "maybe" it's not so "f**king obvious" as you think...

It is, he gets it just fine, it's you who is trying to make something out of nothing because you don't understand it. You're comparing apples to oranges without the experience to understand what's going on in the things that you are comparing.

[Nowhk]

It is, he gets it just fine, it's you who is trying to make something out of nothing because you don't understand it. You're comparing apples to oranges without the experience to understand what's going on in the things that you are comparing.

I'll put it on another way so...

If all of this is "silly" and irrelevant, why lots of people "listening" to a speaker comparison:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAjaRvprSt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFKnGNIa58c
says things like "that sound the best for me", "that one is better", "that has unbelievable sound" and so on? Isn't because it "adds" somethings pleasant?

[BertKoor]

Because:

Why does your mother drive another type of car than you do? It's the same question in essence. And the same answer: Because we are individuals with different experience and different expectations.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Read that novel. It deals with Quality. We all find different things important.

[slipstick]

Why are people listening to comparisons of full range monitor speakers on YOUTUBE (not exactly well known for delivering high quality sound) and probably through their laptop speakers?

Errr...because they're idiots, maybe? That's like recording the best hi-fi in the world on an ancient cassette recorder through its internal mic and then playing the tape to all your friends saying "Hear how good my hi-fi sounds" .

Steve

[ghettosynth]

It is, he gets it just fine, it's you who is trying to make something out of nothing because you don't understand it. You're comparing apples to oranges without the experience to understand what's going on in the things that you are comparing.

I'll put it on another way so...

If all of this is "silly" and irrelevant, why lots of people "listening" to a speaker comparison:

You still don't know what you don't know. You're just wasting a whole lot of time trying to convince everyone that you're on to something when there's nothing there. We all understand that speakers are different, we also understand that playback systems have tone controls. None of this matters in any significant sense. Speakers having different response curves does not elevate the experience of listening to some significant notion of participation in music.

Again, what exactly is the goal of this stupid thread? You've already admitted to essentially trolling your audience with something that you knew was false?

Frankly, I think that this is off topic and should be moved to HPC where it can die the death that it deserves.

[Nowhk]

None of this matters in any significant sense. Speakers having different response curves does not elevate the experience of listening to some significant notion of participation in music.

Lol Go to say this to the dozen of thousand people (audiophiles?!?!) who spend bilions on setups which add "fancy" colors to the sound.

Relax, and quit discussion if you don't follow it anymore.

Because:

Why does your mother drive another type of car than you do? It's the same question in essence. And the same answer: Because we are individuals with different experience and different expectations.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Read that novel. It deals with Quality. We all find different things important.

Yep, that's a nice example. My mom choose a different car because it gives to her somethings "confortable". "It gives" somethings. So the experience of driving from German to France is better for her!

If the car is the speaker and the trip is the song, you agree with me that it "adds" somethings at the trip...

[ghettosynth]

None of this matters in any significant sense. Speakers having different response curves does not elevate the experience of listening to some significant notion of participation in music.

Lol Go to say this to the dozen of thousand people (audiophiles?!?!) who spend bilions on setups which add "fancy" colors to the sound.

This has already been discussed. There are many reasons why audiophiles spend money, some part of that is real, much of it is just bias.

Because:

Why does your mother drive another type of car than you do? It's the same question in essence. And the same answer: Because we are individuals with different experience and different expectations.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Read that novel. It deals with Quality. We all find different things important.

Yep, that's a nice example. My mom choose a different car because it gives to her somethings "confortable". "It gives" somethings. So the experience of driving from German to France is better for her!

If the car is the speaker and the trip is the song, you agree with me that it "adds" somethings at the trip...

[/quote]

You are exaggerating his response. He's telling you that it's preference, he's also telling you that you still don't get it.

[Nowhk]

Whats wrong with you mate? Why do you take it so personal? If you are sure you are right and that I'm a totally idiot, just quit the topic and don't reply anymore (and don't reply for other people too).

[ghettosynth]

Whats wrong with you mate? Why do you take it so personal? If you are sure you are right and that I'm a totally idiot, just quit the topic and don't reply anymore (and don't reply for other people too).

If you want to make absurd claims on a forum like this you're going to be called out on it. You're like an astrologist at an astronomy conference who doesn't realize that there's a difference. You keep stating things that are obvious and then try to assert that it has some meaning, it doesn't.

[BertKoor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_t ... aintenance

[Nowhk]

If you want to make absurd claims on a forum

I'm not making claims at all. Just hypothesis. Aren't permitted?

We all understand that speakers are different, we also understand that playback systems have tone controls. None of this matters in any significant sense. Speakers having different response curves does not elevate the experience of listening to some significant notion of participation in music.

Who are you for "claim" this as absolutism? What if I "feel" a different experience and you don't?
@dark water, for example said exactly the opposite of what you sustain: "The original sound + electronic equipment + the acoustic environment (+ how you cognitively process the sensory information coming into your brain) will affect how you listen to a sound. This is also why your listening experiences will be different if any of those variables (and many more which I've probably missed out) change".

Maybe its my english fault and I don't get dark water's reply? Yes it could be; but you can argue about this with calm and respect, not sending all to the hell because you are bored of my misunderstanding. Thats symptom of wisdom imo. I don't care if you are bigger: I "perceive" that you are cultured and experienced, but honestly you are not helpful at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_and_t ... aintenance

Yeah mate, thanks for the tip. Got it yesterday Maybe it can clarify my dubts about this topic, for only 10€

And thanks to everyone who partecipate at this idiot/stupid/non-sense/religious discussion.

[ghettosynth]

If you want to make absurd claims on a forum

I'm not making claims at all. Just hypothesis. Aren't permitted?

A hypothesis IS a claim, by definition. However, your question that is the title implies a clear assertion that is incorrect. Helping you understand that was fine, up until the point that you admitted that you were essentially trolling.

Moreover, you don't actually have a hypothesis, just pointless assertions. Your use of the language of science to elevate this silliness is, as I said earlier, very much like an astrologist at an astronomy convention.

but honestly you are not helpful at all.

You're confused, I'm not really trying to help you any more.