More copy protection...

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Last edited by Zaphod (giancarlo) on Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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everything started because the "polite" mr rambo posted these nice lines
Fair enough, but since you're here, lemme ask you something; it seems most of you "established" companies care a lot about protecting your software, but barely any of you appear to care about protecting your customers:
and again

How come none of you bothered to implement https encryption yet?
I mean, it is 2017.
Frankly, it makes me quite uneasy the thought of purchasing anything from you guys, while knowing that my credit card and other valuable info could be stolen at any time.

With all due respect.

The point I'm making here is that a lot of developers have their priorities set wrong, whether it's wasting time on protection-related booby-traps, or ignoring the obvious web security issues, thereby putting their customers at risk.

By all means, keep editing your post until you finally manage to make a point, you're close.
Man your website is a mess and you know it. It is extremely buggy, insecure and very frustrating to deal with.
You've been promising a fix for quite some time now and still nothing, which really makes your company look bad.
But yeah, that is another topic indeed, so I'll leave it at that.
I rarely engage in such discussions since I have a lot of work to do, but this time I felt provoked by the sheer arrogance and inflated egos of some people here.
please note

You've been promising a fix for quite some time now and still nothin
he knows my situation very well.
This is just a personal attack.

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I think it is relevant to acknowledge the different components of unrelated systems. This is due to the initial statements which mentioned something along the lines of "responsible for protection but don't bother to use https."

Well this is a fallacious argument of course because the third unrelated conclusion is being drawn from two other unrelated issues.

A, but not B, therefore C. (A && !B) != C. The argument was (A && !B) == C, but A and B being totally unrelated in any way to C don't actually provide any evidence at all for that conclusion.

The logic is just broken right from the beginning. The assertion is equal to "C by fiat." That was all I wanted to point out.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.

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aciddose wrote:I think it is relevant to acknowledge the different components of unrelated systems. This is due to the initial statements which mentioned something along the lines of "responsible for protection but don't bother to use https."

Well this is a fallacious argument of course because the third unrelated conclusion is being drawn from two other unrelated issues.

A, but not B, therefore C. (A && !B) != C. The argument was (A && !B) == C, but A and B being totally unrelated in any way to C don't actually provide any evidence at all for that conclusion.

The logic is just broken right from the beginning. The assertion is equal to "C by fiat." That was all I wanted to point out.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
sometimes I love you

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipse_dixit <-- I've never been able to remember the name of this one.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.

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care a lot about protecting your software, but barely any of you appear to care about protecting your customers
Object Software, Customer;
protect (Software) && !protect (Customer)

basically the Software and the Customer class have the same base class Object.
Seriously I don't think there is a subclass possible other then "Object".

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I'm glad to have given you two something to play with, because obviously you have nothing better to do.

You can dissect my logic as much as you want (even though I apologized about that particular side of the discussion quite some time ago and tried to steer this thread back on topic, while you both kept derailing it further).

The facts remain: your websites are insecure, accounts hackable, and most developers' approaches to copy protection here are obsolete, inefficient and useless.

These will be my final words.

Good night, gentlemen.

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void serverHttpAcustica () {
while (Acustica.releases(Products.applyProtection())) {
if (Acustica.runningTime++ > tenYears && Acustica.downtime < singleDay) System.out.println ("please derail an other thread");
Acustica.removeProtection (Products.isUnusefulProtection ());
if (Accounts.hackable ()) {
Chinese.hacks (Accounts);
if (Accounts.majorDamage ()) System.exit (0);
while(Accounts.compromised ()) {
Acustica.downtime++;
Acustica.patches(Accounts);
Acustica.enforces(Security);
}}}

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Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote:void serverHttpAcustica () {
while (Acustica.releases(Products.applyProtection())) {
if (Acustica.runningTime++ > tenYears && Acustica.downtime < singleDay) System.out.println ("please derail an other thread");
Acustica.removeProtection (Products.isUnusefulProtection ());
if (Accounts.hackable ()) {
Chinese.hacks (Accounts);
if (Accounts.majorDamage ()) System.exit (0);
while(Accounts.compromised ()) {
Acustica.downtime++;
Acustica.patches(Accounts);
Acustica.enforces(Security);
}}}
Zaphod, I would love to own a license to your software. :) It looks very interesting.
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

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raysaul wrote:and most developers' approaches to copy protection here are obsolete, inefficient and useless.
tell me why the approach of several ones should be obsolete.
I understand you want to research on new approaches, but do you have numbers about them? What's working and why?

I understand several customers have preferences and would never buy an ilok product, for example... But did you realize that for several companies the opinion of those customers is less relevant then being cracked the very first day? There is an impact on the final price, without protection it is certainly lower and several companies have just a smaller userbase (a niche in the niche) and they could never survive otherwise. Did you take in account this?
It's a matter of numbers. Let's suppose you want to recover 50000 eur of costs for a pluginv in 5 months (and trust me, this number is very low).
If the plugin costs 50 eur you need 1000 users. This number could be very low for several ones (ie waves l2), but maybe it is not so low for a boutique plugin like our Coral (and yes, it is still advertised and used by several major artists and producers).
So the attempt is to raise the product price to 100 and to sell less licenses. Now, at that price you cannot release without protection
So what should be do? I need numbers, something working, an algorithm for myself.
The problem is that without data you are "supposing" what companies should do just because you think this or that is not correct, and you would never buy... But did you ever think for a while you are "part" of the equation? Did you ever think for a while that companies being on the business for 10 or 20 years or more tried already all possible combinations of prices and protection levels? The major problem here is about the market size (which is raising, but very far from the sizes of the video game industry)
The biggest companies have 200k customers, and they created this userbase in 20-30 years. In the videogame industry they are maybe in the 200M ballpark, there is a factor 1000 at least

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_logic

C language truth functions are much easier to understand than any of that.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.

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Copy protection experiment continues:

Uploaded the second product (Patcher preset) of four to Gumroad, a rhythm/note generator for drums/samplers/etc, 8 voices/notes out. It has the same layout as the chord generator (first product), 3 knobs, a power button, and a scaling knob. So far sales are at an all time high of zero. I will add images, audio, and text to the product pages as time permits, as well as a manual.
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

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So far sales are at an all time high of zero.
Please keep us informed about what has worked for you and what does not. So far, nothing, apparently. I have seen similar product launch attempts but of course they weren't open about the facts, so we don't know.
~stratum~

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:clown:
Last edited by Vertion on Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

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