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j37 vs satin?

medienhexer
KVRian
 
599 posts since 16 May, 2007, from At home. Good bye city ways!

Postby medienhexer; Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:45 pm Re: j37 vs satin?

Urs wrote:Yeah... we might need to make better demos. Just takes so much stupid time/money we'd rather put into development.

I thought we had established that any video by Dan Worrall will shut up the KVR crowd and cover both, marketing AND tutorial needs :D
..off to play with my music toys - personal music endeavors, as well as library music production.
http://www.medienhexer.de
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exmatproton
KVRAF
 
1823 posts since 24 Apr, 2011

Postby exmatproton; Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:01 am Re: j37 vs satin?

medienhexer wrote:
Urs wrote:Yeah... we might need to make better demos. Just takes so much stupid time/money we'd rather put into development.

I thought we had established that any video by Dan Worrall will shut up the KVR crowd and cover both, marketing AND tutorial needs :D


:lol: :lol:
kmonkey
KVRAF
 
3696 posts since 17 Aug, 2004

Postby kmonkey; Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:45 am Re: j37 vs satin?

Urs wrote:So if we post a video with one of our guys listening to a Studer with an oscilloscope draped in the background, Satin miraculously sounds better?


Sadly to a lot of peeps and "pros" that would sell Satin more easily. Especially if you make kinda more photorealistic look of a plugin. Before you tell me "but that is a waste of time" i am gonna say i know...

Its like ATM this whole things about product videos and oscilloscopes in the background is a Monty Python tragedy show. Not gonna put names but a few companies are doing it and people are buying this nonsense.

Just recently i talked with a person which told me that Satin sounded cartoonish to him. While Uad Studer was a lot better. I added my own opinion and I put a lot of effort and energy to convince him to give it another try and not look at GUI but hear sound and processing effect of Satin. Today he happily use Satin.

Which was precisely my motivation for starting this thread https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=487140 and asking for different Satin skins..To make it more appealing and easier to work with for people which fail on to gui thing..

Oh well..
v1o
KVRian
 
800 posts since 1 Oct, 2004

Postby v1o; Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:59 am Re: j37 vs satin?

Urs wrote:
realmarco wrote:and i want proof that it does sound like it

Fair enough.

If you think Satin lacks any proof, read the user manual. It's not copy pasted from Wikipedia or anything, it's written by the developer, in his own words, from the knowledge he gathered doing tape plug-ins before Satin, and while Satin was developed. Every detail is modelled and verifyable against the knowledge and standard literature about tape.

Most other tape plug-ins could, for all we know, just be a bunch of EQ curves, a tad of compression and a little hint of distortion. And many we checked out, simply are. Those have no underlying model. They exhibit the correct frequency response for the correct source material, but they diverge as soon as you drive them a bit more or as soon as the input material has the wrong spectral content. Some don't behave like tape at all.


I think Waves are experimenting with lowering their prices overall across the entire range and selling at high volume. The new Mixdown plugin launched at a discounted price. They used to only discount major plugins when they got old and had been on the market a few years. Soundtoys seem to getting in on it as well, as they recently put a plugin on sale for $29. I don't it will you affect your business at all. Your products are quite different from Waves.

As for fake tape plugins. Maybe you should educate users on how to test tape plugins for authenticity. So they can differentiate the real from the garbage. The majority of users didn't grow up tracking bands to reel to reel tape. So it's all new to many younger producers.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2
v1o
KVRian
 
800 posts since 1 Oct, 2004

Postby v1o; Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:04 am Re: j37 vs satin?

kmonkey wrote:
Urs wrote:So if we post a video with one of our guys listening to a Studer with an oscilloscope draped in the background, Satin miraculously sounds better?


Sadly to a lot of peeps and "pros" that would sell Satin more easily. Especially if you make kinda more photorealistic look of a plugin. Before you tell me "but that is a waste of time" i am gonna say i know...

Its like ATM this whole things about product videos and oscilloscopes in the background is a Monty Python tragedy show. Not gonna put names but a few companies are doing it and people are buying this nonsense.

Just recently i talked with a person which told me that Satin sounded cartoonish to him. While Uad Studer was a lot better. I added my own opinion and I put a lot of effort and energy to convince him to give it another try and not look at GUI but hear sound and processing effect of Satin. Today he happily use Satin.

Which was precisely my motivation for starting this thread https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=487140 and asking for different Satin skins..To make it more appealing and easier to work with for people which fail on to gui thing..

Oh well..

What's wrong with UAD Studer?
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2
simon.a.billington
KVRian
 
1048 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Postby simon.a.billington; Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:18 am Re: j37 vs satin?

realmarco wrote:
Urs wrote:
simon.a.billington wrote:
realmarco wrote:the j37 is a plugin of the actual machines the beatles used at abbey road.

did Uhe actually go there to measure the machines ?
or was is just a lets-look-at-the-circuit-blueprints

what i like about softubes is that they have videos on how they develop their plugins thats what U-he is missing imo


This makes a valid point.

So if we post a video with one of our guys listening to a Studer with an oscilloscope draped in the background, Satin miraculously sounds better?


i was thinking more of a marketing standpoint.

Like i want model X of X brand tape recorder

i bought the Studer and J37 plugins because i wanted a studer A800 anda J37 tape recorder ITB

and i want proof that it does sound like it


Whereas if you see another post I made elsewhere, I did raise the question, in general, not in relation to realmarco, that for most people, being a tape emulation should be enough.

Urs, I'm not one of those who haver to pursue the most accurate emulations, I think people miss the point if they let their OCD get the better of them in that sense. A tape emulation still functions asa tape in your mix, whether it is a J37, Satin, or something else.
sascha
KVRian
 
963 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from Berlin, Germany

Postby sascha; Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:59 am Re: j37 vs satin?

v1o wrote:As for fake tape plugins. Maybe you should educate users on how to test tape plugins for authenticity. So they can differentiate the real from the garbage. The majority of users didn't grow up tracking bands to reel to reel tape. So it's all new to many younger producers.


It's a long while back, but here's a post where I jumped in as I felt that some false info or assumption was given. Not wanting to step on anyone's toes, but if you read the Satin manual, there'll come up some discrepancy.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=394049&p=5527632#p5527632
Sascha Eversmeier
u-he | digitalfishphones | samplitude (past)
realmarco
Waaaaahhh
 
2145 posts since 29 Jul, 2001, from montreal, quebec,canada

Postby realmarco; Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:22 pm Re: j37 vs satin?

bmrzycki wrote:
realmarco wrote:everybody hates reading manuals

Not true for me at least. The first place I go is the manual: it has to describe the workings and limitations of a product. It's the place I find that has the least amount of marketing and spin and actually covers what the thing does.

And sometimes you get cool tips, tricks, or history of the devices being imitated.

To each their own I suppose.


if we where to make a poll u would lose
If your plugin is a Synth-edit/synth-maker creation, Say So.
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.

https://soundcloud.com/realmarco

...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
mementus
KVRist
 
406 posts since 10 Apr, 2011

Postby mementus; Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:15 am Re: j37 vs satin?

Is there a way to eliminate all the noise from j37?
MogwaiBoy
KVRAF
 
2180 posts since 26 Nov, 2015, from Way Downunder

Postby MogwaiBoy; Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:18 am Re: j37 vs satin?

mementus wrote:Is there a way to eliminate all the noise from j37?


Yep! You can completely remove it by turning the Noise dial all the way to Off.
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ChamomileShark
KVRian
 
974 posts since 12 May, 2004, from Oxford, UK

Postby ChamomileShark; Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:46 am Re: j37 vs satin?

I'm extremely disappointed that I cannot accurately emulate the drive belt squeak from my old ReVox in Satin. The closest i have come is adding a looped sample of a duck into the mix but really i had hoped that Satin would be able to do this.
MogwaiBoy
KVRAF
 
2180 posts since 26 Nov, 2015, from Way Downunder

Postby MogwaiBoy; Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:50 pm Re: j37 vs satin?

This band use real tape loops. Check out the cello/string loops at the beginning - you can practically hear the mechanisms inside the tape machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRrGCVlMHk

Be cool if a plugin did that.
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ChamomileShark
KVRian
 
974 posts since 12 May, 2004, from Oxford, UK

Postby ChamomileShark; Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:14 pm Re: j37 vs satin?

you could fake it - add a click for the slice and maybe bring down the volume as you go through the sliced parts.

mind you the whole idea of making your tape loops back in the day was that you couldn't hear the join.
MogwaiBoy
KVRAF
 
2180 posts since 26 Nov, 2015, from Way Downunder

Postby MogwaiBoy; Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:31 pm Re: j37 vs satin?

Yeah it's almost like there's some extra transient information as the loop... err, loops! It's more on the lofi slant. Not saying all tape machines are like that - my brother has a hardware Space Echo that sounds really smooth. You're right though you could fake it with overlaying a kind of knocking type sound and some other whirring/clicking machine noises in sync.

I did find some settings in EchoBoy Jnr that get somewhere in the ballpark.

And this really surprised me:
https://www.g-sonique.com/vtd42vintagepsychedelictapedelay.html
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ChamomileShark
KVRian
 
974 posts since 12 May, 2004, from Oxford, UK

Postby ChamomileShark; Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:38 am Re: j37 vs satin?

It's less about the tape machine - it's more about how you badly you did the splicing - if you stretch the tape on the block that will create a wow and no doubt there are other ways you can mess up the splicing.

Most of mine ended up a bit like these at the start of this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5onSdxvdDew
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