Can you tell the difference between amp sims and a mic'd amp recording?

[Bombadil]

I think another point is the intended audience. If you are making music for the avg. music fan who isn't a musician or recording engineer, and everything is recorded and mixed well, they won't know the difference. This holds true for a lot of the minutiae of the recording process. All that will be relevant is whether the song is any good or not.

I've put my amps down in the basement, and generally rely on Scuffham Amps, and to a lesser degree, Amplitube. Scuffham is pretty damn good, and is sensitive to player's dynamics, and rolling off the volume.

As for feedback, you need the right guitar. My Epi Casino gives some nice feedback, as does my SG Classic, both of which have P-90's.

No, there's nothing like a Marshall stack at your back, but my neighbours would come after me with pitchforks and torches.

[donkey tugger]

The ladybird can tell the difference, and prefers three whole watts of Marshall power over the false metel of VST anyday.

[Bombadil]

PS, roundtrip latency with my RME Fireface into Logic, @64 sample buffer is 4.7 milliseconds. Plays fine, no hiccups.

[Musicisbest]

In the context of a full mix, no almost no one can.

And if they can they haven't listened to music to enjoy it for a long time

Wow

[AC222]

In the context of a full mix, no almost no one can.

And if they can they haven't listened to music to enjoy it for a long time

Wow

Anyone with half decent ears should be able to tell the difference most of the time. Look at most of the amateur recordings on youtube with digital amp sims. Most of them sound fake as hell. I believe strongly that with tasteful tweaking you can get to the point where it's tough to tell. But the vast majority of cases, it's pretty obvious.

[BRBWaffles]

In the context of a full mix, no almost no one can.

And if they can they haven't listened to music to enjoy it for a long time

Wow

Anyone with half decent ears should be able to tell the difference most of the time. Look at most of the amateur recordings on youtube with digital amp sims. Most of them sound fake as hell. I believe strongly that with tasteful tweaking you can get to the point where it's tough to tell. But the vast majority of cases, it's pretty obvious.

This guy's golden ears again.

It's also important to note that real amps don't always sound good, and even if the amp itself is fine, the cab doesn't always sound great either. I've recorded plenty of bands who've wanted to use their own gear to track, and the results were not always pleasant. There was this one Randall amp in particular that just made the pick attack sound like scratching a hollow wooden box. It was awful. In a situation like that, the amp sim is easily the better choice. While I realize that this doesn't mean that the amp sim sounds "good" either, there is definitely an appropriate context where the results are favourable. That being said, plenty of amp sims sound amazingly compelling. Spectre Sound Studios did a bunch of comparison videos where the real amp and the sim are A/Bed in the mix in real time. You'd have to care super deeply and passionately beyond all reason to actually listen hard enough to appreciate the difference with some of the better sims out there.

Personally, I sold my amps in favour of sims a long time ago. Some of the more dogmatic people will say I have poor ears, but I say the difference isn't worth having $1500+ worth of slowly deteriorating gear sitting in my living room when a plugin with zero maintenance requirements will do in a pinch.

[acousticglue]

if Sims work for Steven Wilson of Porcupine Tree they work for me

[AC222]

In the context of a full mix, no almost no one can.

And if they can they haven't listened to music to enjoy it for a long time

Wow

Anyone with half decent ears should be able to tell the difference most of the time. Look at most of the amateur recordings on youtube with digital amp sims. Most of them sound fake as hell. I believe strongly that with tasteful tweaking you can get to the point where it's tough to tell. But the vast majority of cases, it's pretty obvious.

This guy's golden ears again.

It's also important to note that real amps don't always sound good, and even if the amp itself is fine, the cab doesn't always sound great either. I've recorded plenty of bands who've wanted to use their own gear to track, and the results were not always pleasant. There was this one Randall amp in particular that just made the pick attack sound like scratching a hollow wooden box. It was awful. In a situation like that, the amp sim is easily the better choice. While I realize that this doesn't mean that the amp sim sounds "good" either, there is definitely an appropriate context where the results are favourable. That being said, plenty of amp sims sound amazingly compelling. Spectre Sound Studios did a bunch of comparison videos where the real amp and the sim are A/Bed in the mix in real time. You'd have to care super deeply and passionately beyond all reason to actually listen hard enough to appreciate the difference with some of the better sims out there.

Personally, I sold my amps in favour of sims a long time ago. Some of the more dogmatic people will say I have poor ears, but I say the difference isn't worth having $1500+ worth of slowly deteriorating gear sitting in my living room when a plugin with zero maintenance requirements will do in a pinch.

Poor ears, no doubt. By the way, I got all of Glenn's blind tests right. It really wasn't hard. On the amp sims, there is less depth of sound and one of the big giveaways is the lack of dynamic response as well as weak low end. Sometimes real amps can sound muddy in this regard but the fullness is something you can work with at the mixing stage. Set your filters appropriately

[Echoes in the Attic]

I did a recording engineering diploma about 12 years ago and we had full access to a nice studio with amps etc. But for my final portfolio, I actually recorded all the guitars in my bedroom with my les Paul going into Amplitube 1, and it fooled the instructors. And they didn't have bad ears. I actually did extremely well on the final production grade. I think even then in a mix, amplitude could do pretty well with a nice sounding guitar and proper mixing. The guitars were quite exposed actually. But I think Les Pauls are one of the easiest guitars to make amp sims sound good as they are so full sounding. But yeah sure I'm A/Bing with the real thing might have been noticeable but not really as they final product as long as they sound good.

[jancivil]

I think another point is the intended audience. If you are making music for the avg. music fan who isn't a musician or recording engineer, and everything is recorded and mixed well, they won't know the difference.

Yeah, I really never made a track intended for the people who A/B these things on KVR.
I don't think anybody's engineering bona fides is going to make them hear the difference either, in actual finished music unless as you imply, it's not mixed or produced so well.

One factor in this is enough gain to drive the amp sim decently, which is something one has to know about a bit.

[BRBWaffles]

Poor ears, no doubt. By the way, I got all of Glenn's blind tests right. It really wasn't hard. On the amp sims, there is less depth of sound and one of the big giveaways is the lack of dynamic response as well as weak low end. Sometimes real amps can sound muddy in this regard but the fullness is something you can work with at the mixing stage. Set your filters appropriately

Okay here. I had a couple minutes of free time today. So, I played a riff through two different setups.

I'm not going to tell you which one is which, but it should be easy to tell anyway. One recording is IKMM's Amplitube 4 Mesa Boogie Dual Rec sim with a Marshall cab and a single 57 on the cone. The other is one of my client's actual Mesa Dual Rec with a Marshall cab and a single 57 on the cone. I tweaked the gain settings as to get them as close as possible. I recorded the same riff and edited them back to back, and I just did some minor EQ to the fizz. Playing through an Epiphone Les Paul with Seymour Duncan Blackouts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdA1mX8-flU

[AC222]

Poor ears, no doubt. By the way, I got all of Glenn's blind tests right. It really wasn't hard. On the amp sims, there is less depth of sound and one of the big giveaways is the lack of dynamic response as well as weak low end. Sometimes real amps can sound muddy in this regard but the fullness is something you can work with at the mixing stage. Set your filters appropriately

Okay here. I had a couple minutes of free time today. So, I played a riff through two different setups.

I'm not going to tell you which one is which, but it should be easy to tell anyway. One recording is IKMM's Amplitube 4 Mesa Boogie Dual Rec sim with a Marshall cab and a single 57 on the cone. The other is one of my client's actual Mesa Dual Rec with a Marshall cab and a single 57 on the cone. I tweaked the gain settings as to get them as close as possible. I recorded the same riff and edited them back to back, and I just did some minor EQ to the fizz. Playing through an Epiphone Les Paul with Seymour Duncan Blackouts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdA1mX8-flU

Ha. You're a boss. That was nice of you to take the time to post that clip. I'm sure you got that I was jesting. Sensitive about these Golden Ears

Anyhow, since I have a 50/50 shot, I am going with the second clip as being the real Mesa. The second one has more low end resonance that I would expect from a miced cab and in spite of the eq treatment the first one sounds a little bit fizzy in comparison but not too bad. Also, I believe that the first clip has more of a linear response to the playing while the second clip to me seems more dynamic. Both are definitely usable clips.

[BRBWaffles]

Anyhow, since I have a 50/50 shot, I am going with the second clip as being the real Mesa. The second one has more low end resonance that I would expect from a miced cab and in spite of the eq treatment the first one sounds a little bit fizzy in comparison but not too bad. Also, I believe that the first clip has more of a linear response to the playing while the second clip to me seems more dynamic. Both are definitely usable clips.

Well, here's the confession. Neither clip is a Mesa or a Mesa sim. They're both Bulldozer by Audio Assault, that I bought for $5. The only difference between the clips is that I switched from the bridge pickup to the neck pickup. Same settings, same everything.

[AC222]

you sly devil!

[AC222]

Somebody's pants are on fire