I thought we had established that any video by Dan Worrall will shut up the KVR crowd and cover both, marketing AND tutorial needsUrs wrote:Yeah... we might need to make better demos. Just takes so much stupid time/money we'd rather put into development.
j37 vs satin?
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- KVRian
- 1139 posts since 16 May, 2007 from At home. Good bye city ways!
..off to play with my music toys - library music production.
http://www.FiveMinuteHippo.com
http://www.FiveMinuteHippo.com
- KVRAF
- 3045 posts since 25 Apr, 2011
medienhexer wrote:I thought we had established that any video by Dan Worrall will shut up the KVR crowd and cover both, marketing AND tutorial needsUrs wrote:Yeah... we might need to make better demos. Just takes so much stupid time/money we'd rather put into development.
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- KVRAF
- 4798 posts since 17 Aug, 2004
Sadly to a lot of peeps and "pros" that would sell Satin more easily. Especially if you make kinda more photorealistic look of a plugin. Before you tell me "but that is a waste of time" i am gonna say i know...Urs wrote: So if we post a video with one of our guys listening to a Studer with an oscilloscope draped in the background, Satin miraculously sounds better?
Its like ATM this whole things about product videos and oscilloscopes in the background is a Monty Python tragedy show. Not gonna put names but a few companies are doing it and people are buying this nonsense.
Just recently i talked with a person which told me that Satin sounded cartoonish to him. While Uad Studer was a lot better. I added my own opinion and I put a lot of effort and energy to convince him to give it another try and not look at GUI but hear sound and processing effect of Satin. Today he happily use Satin.
Which was precisely my motivation for starting this thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=487140 and asking for different Satin skins..To make it more appealing and easier to work with for people which fail on to gui thing..
Oh well..
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- KVRAF
- 3367 posts since 2 Oct, 2004
I think Waves are experimenting with lowering their prices overall across the entire range and selling at high volume. The new Mixdown plugin launched at a discounted price. They used to only discount major plugins when they got old and had been on the market a few years. Soundtoys seem to getting in on it as well, as they recently put a plugin on sale for $29. I don't it will you affect your business at all. Your products are quite different from Waves.Urs wrote:Fair enough.realmarco wrote:and i want proof that it does sound like it
If you think Satin lacks any proof, read the user manual. It's not copy pasted from Wikipedia or anything, it's written by the developer, in his own words, from the knowledge he gathered doing tape plug-ins before Satin, and while Satin was developed. Every detail is modelled and verifyable against the knowledge and standard literature about tape.
Most other tape plug-ins could, for all we know, just be a bunch of EQ curves, a tad of compression and a little hint of distortion. And many we checked out, simply are. Those have no underlying model. They exhibit the correct frequency response for the correct source material, but they diverge as soon as you drive them a bit more or as soon as the input material has the wrong spectral content. Some don't behave like tape at all.
As for fake tape plugins. Maybe you should educate users on how to test tape plugins for authenticity. So they can differentiate the real from the garbage. The majority of users didn't grow up tracking bands to reel to reel tape. So it's all new to many younger producers.
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2
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- KVRAF
- 3367 posts since 2 Oct, 2004
What's wrong with UAD Studer?kmonkey wrote:Sadly to a lot of peeps and "pros" that would sell Satin more easily. Especially if you make kinda more photorealistic look of a plugin. Before you tell me "but that is a waste of time" i am gonna say i know...Urs wrote: So if we post a video with one of our guys listening to a Studer with an oscilloscope draped in the background, Satin miraculously sounds better?
Its like ATM this whole things about product videos and oscilloscopes in the background is a Monty Python tragedy show. Not gonna put names but a few companies are doing it and people are buying this nonsense.
Just recently i talked with a person which told me that Satin sounded cartoonish to him. While Uad Studer was a lot better. I added my own opinion and I put a lot of effort and energy to convince him to give it another try and not look at GUI but hear sound and processing effect of Satin. Today he happily use Satin.
Which was precisely my motivation for starting this thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=487140 and asking for different Satin skins..To make it more appealing and easier to work with for people which fail on to gui thing..
Oh well..
Orion Platinum, Muzys 2
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simon.a.billington simon.a.billington https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=341278
- KVRAF
- 2365 posts since 12 Nov, 2014
Whereas if you see another post I made elsewhere, I did raise the question, in general, not in relation to realmarco, that for most people, being a tape emulation should be enough.realmarco wrote:i was thinking more of a marketing standpoint.Urs wrote:So if we post a video with one of our guys listening to a Studer with an oscilloscope draped in the background, Satin miraculously sounds better?simon.a.billington wrote:This makes a valid point.realmarco wrote:the j37 is a plugin of the actual machines the beatles used at abbey road.
did Uhe actually go there to measure the machines ?
or was is just a lets-look-at-the-circuit-blueprints
what i like about softubes is that they have videos on how they develop their plugins thats what U-he is missing imo
Like i want model X of X brand tape recorder
i bought the Studer and J37 plugins because i wanted a studer A800 anda J37 tape recorder ITB
and i want proof that it does sound like it
Urs, I'm not one of those who haver to pursue the most accurate emulations, I think people miss the point if they let their OCD get the better of them in that sense. A tape emulation still functions asa tape in your mix, whether it is a J37, Satin, or something else.
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- KVRian
- 1113 posts since 2 Oct, 2001 from Berlin, Germany
It's a long while back, but here's a post where I jumped in as I felt that some false info or assumption was given. Not wanting to step on anyone's toes, but if you read the Satin manual, there'll come up some discrepancy.v1o wrote: As for fake tape plugins. Maybe you should educate users on how to test tape plugins for authenticity. So they can differentiate the real from the garbage. The majority of users didn't grow up tracking bands to reel to reel tape. So it's all new to many younger producers.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=394049&p=5527632#p5527632
Sascha Eversmeier
drummer of The Board
software dev in the studio-speaker biz | former plugin creator [u-he, samplitude & digitalfishphones]
drummer of The Board
software dev in the studio-speaker biz | former plugin creator [u-he, samplitude & digitalfishphones]
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- Waaaaahhh
- 2224 posts since 30 Jul, 2001 from montreal, quebec,canada
if we where to make a poll u would losebmrzycki wrote:Not true for me at least. The first place I go is the manual: it has to describe the workings and limitations of a product. It's the place I find that has the least amount of marketing and spin and actually covers what the thing does.realmarco wrote:everybody hates reading manuals
And sometimes you get cool tips, tricks, or history of the devices being imitated.
To each their own I suppose.
If your plugin is a Synth-edit/synth-maker creation, Say So.
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.
https://soundcloud.com/realmarco
...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
If not Make a Mac version of your Plugins Please.
https://soundcloud.com/realmarco
...everyone is out to get me!!!!!!!
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- KVRAF
- 4709 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
Yep! You can completely remove it by turning the Noise dial all the way to Off.mementus wrote:Is there a way to eliminate all the noise from j37?
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ChamomileShark ChamomileShark https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25116
- KVRAF
- 2799 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK
I'm extremely disappointed that I cannot accurately emulate the drive belt squeak from my old ReVox in Satin. The closest i have come is adding a looped sample of a duck into the mix but really i had hoped that Satin would be able to do this.
Pastoral, Kosmiche, Ambient Music https://markgriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Experimental Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Experimental Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/
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- KVRAF
- 4709 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
This band use real tape loops. Check out the cello/string loops at the beginning - you can practically hear the mechanisms inside the tape machine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRrGCVlMHk
Be cool if a plugin did that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRrGCVlMHk
Be cool if a plugin did that.
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ChamomileShark ChamomileShark https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25116
- KVRAF
- 2799 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK
you could fake it - add a click for the slice and maybe bring down the volume as you go through the sliced parts.
mind you the whole idea of making your tape loops back in the day was that you couldn't hear the join.
mind you the whole idea of making your tape loops back in the day was that you couldn't hear the join.
Pastoral, Kosmiche, Ambient Music https://markgriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Experimental Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Experimental Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/
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- KVRAF
- 4709 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
Yeah it's almost like there's some extra transient information as the loop... err, loops! It's more on the lofi slant. Not saying all tape machines are like that - my brother has a hardware Space Echo that sounds really smooth. You're right though you could fake it with overlaying a kind of knocking type sound and some other whirring/clicking machine noises in sync.
I did find some settings in EchoBoy Jnr that get somewhere in the ballpark.
And this really surprised me:
https://www.g-sonique.com/vtd42vintagep ... delay.html
I did find some settings in EchoBoy Jnr that get somewhere in the ballpark.
And this really surprised me:
https://www.g-sonique.com/vtd42vintagep ... delay.html
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ChamomileShark ChamomileShark https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=25116
- KVRAF
- 2799 posts since 12 May, 2004 from Oxford, UK
It's less about the tape machine - it's more about how you badly you did the splicing - if you stretch the tape on the block that will create a wow and no doubt there are other ways you can mess up the splicing.
Most of mine ended up a bit like these at the start of this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5onSdxvdDew
Most of mine ended up a bit like these at the start of this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5onSdxvdDew
Pastoral, Kosmiche, Ambient Music https://markgriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Experimental Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/
Experimental Music https://markdaltongriffiths.bandcamp.com/