Secret blacklist for shady customers

[FabienTDR]

Another option is just not allowing Paypal as payment option and just use credit cards. Then the only way a scam could be done is by using a stolen CC... which seems less likely than Paypal customer protection abuse. Not that it doesn't happen at all...

Good point.

I think that a dev intercom in form of a private mailing list could work well. I'll think a bit about it and prepare something simple.

[ATN69]

Another option is just not allowing Paypal as payment option and just use credit cards. Then the only way a scam could be done is by using a stolen CC... which seems less likely than Paypal customer protection abuse. Not that it doesn't happen at all...

Good point.

I think that a dev intercom in form of a private mailing list could work well. I'll think a bit about it and prepare something simple.

I totally get that this is a problem for everyone, but personally I would not spread my credit card around on the internet. Filing a case with a bank like HSBC (my bank) and try to prove to them that someone stole my credit card info is a big and time consuming untertaking, and especially since I would have been the one spreading the info around. In such case I would prefere any other method like direct transfer from my account to a dev account, even though that is slow.

[pekbro]

I wont use credit to buy plugins either, I wouldn't have a problem with
a dev who didn't accept paypal, so long as they provided some other means
of payment. Check, money transfer, whatever. If its something that takes a while,
I would have to want the plugin pretty bad, but I would wait.

[tehlord]

Well, there is always the potential for a legitimate customer, with a legitimate complaint to find themselves secretly blacklisted. There's a Judge but no Jury.

I think you didn't understand which kind of "customers" Fabien have in mind but keep up playing the drama queen.

TBH, I also wonder who these guys are. But when you have tens of thousands customers, even 0.1% is still quite a lot of work and expense, for nothing! If you don't run a shop, you'd certainly never even touch such issues.

The problem is the international nature, try to sue a Chinese customer, you have absolutely no chance. Paypal focusses on customers protection at all cost, this system is easy to abuse. You buy any digital product, wait 2 weeks and then fill a complain called "unauthorized transaction". The seller has absolutely no chance, he must refund or risk his own account. Even if he clearly stated upfront that all sales are final.

There's no drama in this, I just like to be prepared for whatever developments. Pragmatism, really. Again, the intention is to preserve easy, fair and optimistic CP schemes. This thread addresses small devs mostly, it's the DSP and Plugin dev forum after all!

Perhaps you could create a separate licence model for people that pay via paypal, where they have to re-authorise the plugin every 14 days for the first 6 months or so. If they don't like it and are genuine customers, then they will find another way to pay.

[FabienTDR]

tehlord, lazy reauthorization sounds like an excellent option! Maybe just for shady cases, not all. It's cool and not too unfriendly.

[tehlord]

tehlord, lazy reauthorization sounds like an excellent option! Maybe just for shady cases, not all. It's cool and not too unfriendly.

I don't think it's an issue for most people tbh. I think customers need to understand that using paypal for transactions like this is almost the same as a loan to most vendors. Splice may have paved the way for new users to accept not owning a plugin until it's fully paid for, and with the option for vendors to be forced to accept a clawback from unscrupulous customers, that they have to accept a 180 rolling licence until that clawback period expires.

Perhaps if several of the bigger devs decided to do this together, it won't come as much of a shock.

Actually, you could even split the payments over 6 months via paypal? Possibly too complicated.

[masterhiggins]

Another option is just not allowing Paypal as payment option and just use credit cards. Then the only way a scam could be done is by using a stolen CC... which seems less likely than Paypal customer protection abuse. Not that it doesn't happen at all...

Jrrshop decided on the opposite. Evidently the credit card chargebacks are a much bigger problem for them than PayPal. When you go to their site, you can only use credit cards throughout your PayPal account. I was kind of surprised by that, too.

[chk071]

I'm wondering if any software dev is interested in building a secret blacklist for shady customers. You know, those buying your products, downloading them and filling a paypal complain a week later.

Just wondering, but, what are those Paypal complaints about, and why does Paypal approve them, when they're unreasonable?

On the topic, frankly, i wouldn't bother about a list you could share with other companies. I mean, it's honorable that you want to prevent other companies to have happened what happened to you, but, i don't quite see the point.