How do you proceed when you are producing ?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Hi, looks like a nooby question, but wich is very important.

Let say you want to produce a song (composing, producing, mixing) how do you proceed ?

My problem is that I am totally lost when trying to compose.
I use also some hardware (virus ti) wich does not work like simple vst, and need to be used apart, wich makes that I never finish or do something serious.

For example, I have an idea in head, so I connect my virus, I record some synth song from it, then I make it off, then I had some samples, then I put a compressor/eq, but WHAT AM I DOING ???

So how do you deal with it ?

Would it be a good idea to compose an entire track with piano/midi keyboard, while imagining how it would sound from synths sounds, then produce it, and at the final, mixing it ?

Post

NotreDame wrote:Would it be a good idea to compose an entire track with piano/midi keyboard, while imagining how it would sound from synths sounds, then produce it, and at the final, mixing it ?
That's one way. When I was composing Americana/pop stuff (without any synths), I'd write the song on acoustic guitar, lay down the acoustic to a click track, then build on from there - drums, bass, etc. You'll learn how to use the e.q. and compression as you go and learn, but it sounds like you need to concentrate more on just creating a song with plugins and your hardware, then worry about the effects...as you get "better," though, that will probably become simultaneous. YouTube might have videos on how to "produce" a song.

Post

I mostly make remixes recently, but whatever.

Start with the key parts (leads, hooks). Create them in few variants and see how they go together. Then proceed to basic parts (drums, bass etc), finally add some effects. I hold everything in Ableton clips so I can switch between different parts and ideas freely. I don't get down to arrangement until I'm sure I have enough material to create full track.
Usually many things get scrapped as they don't fit in final arangement. Don't regret these.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

Post

I'm lousy at getting the motivation to finish tracks unless I have some kind of pressure; a dead line or specific goal for example. This is one reason why I've entered the One Synth Challenge, to get myself to actually make a finished piece.

What I generally do is start working on an idea, can be an 8-bar loop or a chord progression and work on that for a session or two. If I get any other ideas during this time that seems like it could fit I tend to make a quick mock-up somewhere else inside the project using the same instruments/sounds.

This is usually the major creative part of the journey towards a finished track. Try out stuff, create the base. I tend to make rough mixes and even mastering along the way but I don't think I'd recommend it for most people... Depends on style, how you like to work and how comfortable you are with these things. For most electronic music the general "sound" is such a big part of what makes it work so it might be helpful just to get into a creative mood.

Pretty early on, when I'm moderately happy with my loop or verse or chorus or whatever, I get into "rough arrangement"-mode. To me this is not so much a creative process but more of a puzzle. I lay out things, listen to some of the other ideas, see how they can fit together. Where will I need transitions? Do I have a rough idea of how it should start and end? Is there a climax, is there a build-up? Is it a verse-chorus-bridge-type of arrangement. Again, it depends on the style and goal. Think about energy levels. In a rock-based arrangement this usually comes from verse (low energy) vs chorus (high energy). If you have lyrics those are generally the basis for the overall arrangement. In a loop based arrangement it comes more from layering, building up and breaking down. If you get stuck, just start out with sticking to conventions.

This rough arrangement is usually not how the tune is going to end up but it's really really helpful to have something to work from! If you do this early, finishing up will be a lot easier.

At this point I usually work on more details. Set up transitions, try adding and removing stuff, finish up parts that were drafted earlier. I usually go on and out of creative vs puzzling at this stage. Record new parts over the existing ones. Try out other sounds, instruments, whatever. Move things around, make bridge or an outro. Try a different beat, change the basslines.

Somewhere here it's a good idea to bounce your track and listen to it outside of your studio or playing it to other people. Try it in your car, from your phone. Even just closing down your DAW and playing it from another media player may help to gain perspective.

Reiterate on arrangement and working on details and do whatever needed. If you're mixing and mastering yourself, make drafts, listen in other environments, rinse and repeat. If you feel you're getting too obsessed (happens to me all the time) make sure you take a time out. Don't do anything with it for a few days, a week, whatever you need. Since you have at least that rough arrangement done, you always have a semi-finished track to get back to.

Whenever I listen to the track I make a mental (or sometimes literal) note of what changes I feel are needed. The nature of the things I need fixing depend on what part of the process I'm in but I have found myself changing core arrangement or sound design at a time when I thought I was at the end of the mastering process. It's good to commit to something but it's also good to be able to change something that needs changing. There's a balance there so be careful not to get stuck going back and forwards. I often find I lose perspective, get to stuck on details. This is where I have to take a break from it all. Since I probably have neglected my children for days it's a good opportunity to spend some time with them ;)

The decision "this is finished" will come to me at some point when I'm going back and forwards with details or I'm just plain tired of the tune... There will always be things that can be better but changes can just as well make things worse. Any new ideas at that point should probably be made into a completely different work.

Also: don't be afraid to finish something that sucks. Making shitty things is a good way to learn.

tl;dr: Have an idea. Flesh it out and make rough arrangement early. Iterate detailing and re-arranging as needed. At some point commit to a finished piece.

Post

Practice and experience make most of the process pretty easy. It just becomes a matter of aesthetic judgement and problem-solving. (The problems could be "this part is boring" or it could be technical or mix-related, etc.)

I start with a sound. I just pick something arbitrarily or I experiment with sound design -- much more so now that 90% of my synth voices are on modular hardware.

I improvise stuff with that sound -- to me there is no composition without improvisation. Lots of keyboard noodling on my own, considerably less guitar/bass noodling, some hand drumming alone and in groups, a couple years in a high school jazz band, and a couple of years performing with a taiko group (many songs have improvised solos). During that I continue to tweak the sound. It usually isn't too long before I find something I like.

Then I build around that. I create rhythmic variations, embellishments, alternate versions, key changes. I decide what would work with it -- maybe a simple bass or pads or a counterpoint. Sound design, effcts choices, arrangement, song structure, mixing etc. all are part of this; I don't do separate steps.

I don't multitrack parts, and I sample parts only if it's something that can't be sequenced and I'm not confident about getting it right "live." When I can play the song through in the sequencer and I'm happy with the structure, it's got enough variation and interest and I've got my sounds tweaked and balanced the way I want, I make one "final" stereo recording and write down my hardware patch notes.

Then I do some post-production to that -- trimming silence, fadein/out, dynamics, EQ, maybe some master reverb. Sometimes a few more creative effects get applied (filtering a short section, extending the tail of the song through timestretching and reverb, etc.) Then I tear down my modular patch, convert to MP3 and WMV, upload, etc. :)

Start to finish, it tends to be one session of 2-4 hours or so, and I do it a few times per week.

Post

I write mainly typical guitar pop songs with lyrics and all. Over time I've come to the conclusion that working out the whole song before turning on the PC - structure, melody, chords, lyrics - generally produces a better end result AND makes the whole recording and mixing process less frustrating and less likely to end up with hours of experiments that go nowhere.

When I make electronic stuff, I just start out with a basic beat, add layers to build complexity, then subtract parts and move things around to create a structure, add effects here and there until things start coming together by themselves. I rarely finish these.

An important thing to keep in mind if you struggle to finish things is to keep it simple. You don't need billions of parts. One theme, some variations, some sense of development towards a climax is all it takes.

Post

I think mehum nailed it well enough but anyway:

1 - First of all, get a basic arrangement. You have a cool synth riff? put it on a song context and work your way from it. It can be a basic/standard/boring format but it will help you figuring out what the song needs. The important thing here is not get struck on that 15 seconds overproduced loop that sounds amazing but will get boring after 300 listenings.

2 - Also, something I consider important is to not get strucked on a certain task. If you can't program a specific synth patch, then jump to another task you know you can accomplish and get things moving on. The most you insist on that synth patch, the most you'll get frustrated, and it can compromise your motivation on that project. Remember, putting what's in your head on a song is related to how fast you're able to translate your ideas to your DAW.

3 - Speaking of tasks, I use to take notes of what I plan to that specific track. Pads, synths, drums, percussion, etc. So I split these notes on easy tasks and hard tasks and choose the easy ones to do first. Generally, after the easy tasks done, the song is already speaking for itself, so it's easier to go to the hard tasks and have an idea of what I want and how to accomplish it.

4 - Copy arrangements/techniques/intros/outros/build-ups/whatever from other artists. Most of time you'll end up with something totally different. The better you get at producing, the less you'll rely on this technique.

Post

it is certainly a great idea to have as much midi as possible in the project as soon as you can (just don't go overboard and make the whole arrangement), so that at least you have some music to listen to while doing the other chores afterwards, and also you'll be sure you're not wasting time elaborating on poor musical ideas. unless you realize too late that the original ideas suck, or don't amount to the awesomeness you hear in your head, which will happen. in that case, try to tell yourself that you "learned something" from your failure... mostly you will have learned how to fail faster next time :tu:

isn't a virus TI supposed to work just like a vst though?

Post

NotreDame wrote: Would it be a good idea to compose an entire track with piano/midi keyboard, while imagining how it would sound from synths sounds, then produce it, and at the final, mixing it ?
It might well be, for you particularly at this stage.

*Composers* have often composed at a piano, imagining the orchestration but working that out after they have the composition together.

Post Reply

Return to “Everything Else (Music related)”