Roli Seaboard RISE

[SteveElbows]

What about the usb-b one then? I have a USB 2.0 B Male <-> USB 2.0 A Female adapter. In theory that should work.

Unless you are talking about some kind of special wifi dongle that acts as a usb host rather than a usb peripheral, then no, in theory that wont work at all either. Because changing the gender of the usb from male to female is not enough, you are still connecting two usb peripherals to eachother instead of a usb peripheral to a usb host.

I was thinking about Wi-Fi Direct. I'm sure there is a way whether or not that is it remains to be seen.

The only possible solutions still need to involve something that acts a a USB host. Wifi direct would solve some issues related to not having loads of configurable wifi settings on the device, but there are still lots of other pieces of the jigsaw missing.

You would still need something that: acted as a usb host, knew how to receive messages sent via class-compliant midi over usb, knew about any midi over wifi standards and forwarded the midi from the usb to the wifi accordingly. Off the shelf wifi dongles dont do that stuff at all, and I'm not convinced that other products exist that do.

So, at the moment this is firmly in the realm of something that would need to be hacked together, with something at the heart of the solution that was a usb host. I could probably achieve it with, for example, a raspberry pi and some code. But then effectively a little computer has been added to the chain, and some additional latency has surely been introduced. I do actually have some roli & raspberry pi projects lined up but wifi midi isnt on the list at the moment, although about two thirds of what would be needed will be part of my other projects (eg I am planning to use it for things like roli usb midi->traditional midi ports and roli bluetooth->traditional midi ports)

[SteveElbows]

OK as hoped, its not hard to get the seaboard working with non-widibud bluetooth hardware on windows as well, using a couple of free apps to bridge, so long as you have the right version of windows and the right bluetooth hardware.

Requirements:
Windows 10 Creators update (or newer)
Bluetooth hardware that support Bluetooth LE (I think)

Steps:
Download a free app called MIDIberry from the microsoft store.
Download & install virtual midi port software if you dont already have one installed (eg loopMIDI)

Make sure bluetooth is enabled on your windows pc
Go to bluetooth control panel, add new device, select your roli device and connect to it (I tried with seaboard block but will probably work with rise and other blocks too)
Create a virtual midi port using loopMIDI or alternative.
Run MIDIberry
Select your roli device from the input list
Select your virtual midi port from the output list
Now, in the DAW or other midi app of your choice, select the virtual midi port whenever you want to use midi from the roli device.

[prismprocess]

OK as hoped, its not hard to get the seaboard working with non-widibud bluetooth hardware on windows as well, using a couple of free apps to bridge, so long as you have the right version of windows and the right bluetooth hardware.

Requirements:
Windows 10 Creators update (or newer)
Bluetooth hardware that support Bluetooth LE (I think)

Steps:
Download a free app called MIDIberry from the microsoft store.
Download & install virtual midi port software if you dont already have one installed (eg loopMIDI)

Make sure bluetooth is enabled on your windows pc
Go to bluetooth control panel, add new device, select your roli device and connect to it (I tried with seaboard block but will probably work with rise and other blocks too)
Create a virtual midi port using loopMIDI or alternative.
Run MIDIberry
Select your roli device from the input list
Select your virtual midi port from the output list
Now, in the DAW or other midi app of your choice, select the virtual midi port whenever you want to use midi from the roli device.

I salute in return your ability to hack something together.
Recently I replaced my old wifi/bluetooth combo for an Intel AC 7260 so I can try/test this.

It's a wee bit slower in Cubase/Equator than the standalone Equator but still very playable.
That's the bluetooth covered.....now for the wifi possibilities while we are on a roll.

Incidentally I have solved the Cubase problem with slide and glide not working. The culprit was the Generic Low Latency ASIO. I changed it to Asio4all, set the outputs in VST connections and now all is working. It has been a productive day.

.

[aMUSEd]

Can the Lightblock act as an XY controller for the Seaboard block?

[Terrafractyl]

Can the Lightblock act as an XY controller for the Seaboard block?

Absolutely it can! That's what I plan on doing with mine, along with a live block.... and then see how long I can hold off getting a 2nd seaboard block for.

[tapper mike]

Just having noticed posts regarding the linnstrument I had to come back to the subject.

I had a blast with the linnstrument. Unfortunately something sporked it and it will no longer send signals nor light up.
I can't afford another one.

Just recently I gave Jeff Moen admin privileges for the Linnstrument users group at fb. He's far better suited for it.
Jeff and I go back over a decade now. For a short time I was doing a lot with the ztar and writing a blog that featured prominent ztar users. I'd written a few articles about Jeff and his technique. He was an inspiration to me then as now. He's also started a Learn the Linnstrument youtube video series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flNecqsJDI8


I have to say of all the instruments I've learned or tried to learn the Linnstrument was the easiest. Granted I'd spent years tapping on guitar but when everything goes upside down and backwards for the left hand it can take some time for adjustment.

[BONES]

The thing I notice with this video is that this guy spends all his time staring at the board, really hard. It seems to me that the squares are maybe a bit too small and, because it's a flat surface, you can't feel for the right spot, like you can with a proper keyboard. It looks to me like the difference between a mechanical QWERTY computer keyboard and a touchscreen with an ABCDEF keyboard layout. Because everything he is trying to tell me is making very little sense to my untrained keyboard player's brain.

[Gamma-UT]

The thing I notice with this video is that this guy spends all his time staring at the board, really hard. It seems to me that the squares are maybe a bit too small and, because it's a flat surface, you can't feel for the right spot, like you can with a proper keyboard. It looks to me like the difference between a mechanical QWERTY computer keyboard and a touchscreen with an ABCDEF keyboard layout. Because everything he is trying to tell me is making very little sense to my untrained keyboard player's brain.

The advantage of the Linnstrument is also its weakness. It packs a lot into a relatively small space, it's interface is halfway between guitar and keyboard and you can set up the note offset/tuning to support different ways of playing. On the plus side, you can do crazily open chords with one hand. But, with the smallness of the keys, as you've identified, you have issues hitting the right note dead on. With a Seaboard you've got a lot more area to aim at.

I think Jeff here is using the default tuning offset of fourths similar to a guitar/stick and then not playing it like a stick (though to be fair, the splits are set up in such a way that you can't emulate stick tuning directly). Also, despite the superficial similarity, this is an instrument with a different set of tradeoffs to a guitar. You can't use barré chords but you can use thumbs much more because you're not using your thumbs to support it or anchor you hands. With thumbs available, you don't really get a big advantage from compressing an octave into a small squarish block that comes with fourths tuning.

What you do wind up with is a set of chord shapes that compress the hand into pretty unnatural contortions. I've been trying out a tritone offset that seems to make life a lot easier for chord accompaniment and melody style playing. I slightly prefer it to fifths because the offset of the perfect intervals seems to make the hand shapes feel less uncomfortable. I'm not having to twist my wrist as much and not having to keep altering wrist angle across inversions seems to make it easier to hit the notes.

[tapper mike]

Jeff is a big guy. I've found that the zboard which I've played once ever is much easier to play because the spacing is smaller and doesn't utilize the MPE per "cell" features. I too went through the struggles of shifting the left hand to accommodate certain chord voicing. In many ways I miss my ztars for left chord right melody and vice versa. Now I play a more "Unified" chord melody where the right hand also supports the harmony. It's a move away from the split/organ approach. This allows me to play more of a George Shearing block chords (Piano) and Johnny Smith guitar reharmonizations (some of those stretches I could never do on guitar.

All of which leads me back to ztar and artiphon instrument one playing (though I really wish the artiphon had a wider range (12 frets is not enough)

I too became extremely frustrated with the lack of performing bar chords on the linnstrument. I practiced several scaling methods on the linn those that involved thumbs and those that didn't as well as chord structures. Jeff's linnstrument playing is a carryover from his ztar playing more that his stick playing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWWD7O6ZOzI

t's always been simplified chords with simple rhythms against his melody.... Which is perfectly valid but not the direction I choose to go in.

I just wish artiphon would release a more grown up version of their product. I have a love hate thing going on with it as that's my main midi controller these days. The "fret spacing" is too wide for my tastes. Even with up down buttons for octave /half step/step I still want those notes under my fingers.. and more I want more "strings" like a ztar mini 12. Accessing the features is via software rather than onboard. And while it does cover a lot of ground it doesn't allow access to all the parameters that could be implemented with an mpe device. It's also not the easiest instrument to play in "guitar position" with lack of a body. Even with the strap you still need to support the neck and brace the body. More often than not I handle it like a cello. Granted it does not have up/down control (mod) as does the linnstrument. What I also don't like is the lack of fret markers on the board. you can only see them from the side which with a black board and black "buttons" with black frets it becomes hard as hell to see them in low light conditions.

[pdxindy]

The thing I notice with this video is that this guy spends all his time staring at the board, really hard. It seems to me that the squares are maybe a bit too small and, because it's a flat surface, you can't feel for the right spot, like you can with a proper keyboard. It looks to me like the difference between a mechanical QWERTY computer keyboard and a touchscreen with an ABCDEF keyboard layout. Because everything he is trying to tell me is making very little sense to my untrained keyboard player's brain.

I have long slim fingers... and the squares are big enough for me... but maybe for someone with fat fingers, they might be a tad small... It is a give and take. For example, the small Linnstrument easily fits in my backpack, yet has 128 notes.

The surface is not flat... there are indented channels between the squares so there is tactile feedback.

[tapper mike]

I have small hands (width) with short fingers. I agree that the harmonic range is amazing given the surface area.
Another thing to poing out about the indented edges of the "cells" is that the cells themselves are porous meaning gripable.

The need to look at the pads brings up two important faucets of playing and playing styles. Way back when I was trying to master... Eugene's Trick Bag from the movie "Crossroads" (actually both Macchio's and Vai's parts were played by Vai. There is a series of arpeggios in the circle of fifths on just the high two strings. The only way to look that down is to look before you leap. Look at the 47 second mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVX-n7Wst3A?t=47s

When playing Jeff's style of linnstrument one kind of does need to look at what the left hand is doing. Everything is still upside down and backwards from a guitarists left hand fingering.

[tapper mike]

Also it wouldn't hurt any linnstrument users to join the FB page and bring your own perspectives

https://www.facebook.com/groups/744066332361415/

As I've stated previously mines broken

[BONES]

The surface is not flat... there are indented channels between the squares so there is tactile feedback.

Maybe, but nothing at all like the difference between the height of the black keys versus the white keys. I think even the Roli is going to be a challenge to play live, because it is so sensitive to even the softest touch. It will require some careful tweaking because when I'm playing I am usually also singing and I want to engage the audience, not have to look down to get my hands in the right place. I already do to much of that and this looks like it would be way worse.

[pdxindy]

The surface is not flat... there are indented channels between the squares so there is tactile feedback.

Maybe, but nothing at all like the difference between the height of the black keys versus the white keys. I think even the Roli is going to be a challenge to play live, because it is so sensitive to even the softest touch. It will require some careful tweaking because when I'm playing I am usually also singing and I want to engage the audience, not have to look down to get my hands in the right place. I already do to much of that and this looks like it would be way worse.

For sure both the Rise and Linnstrument feel very different from playing regular keys. Each in their own way require additional dexterity.

I have not had the Linnstrument long enough but my current guess is that eventually I will not need to look at it so much. But if I were today up on stage, playing and singing, I would prefer the Rise with its traditional key layout which I'm still considerably more used to. My plan is to have both.

[tapper mike]

Really it depends on how much time you spend on the linnstrument. Peaking down when you need to rather than staring down can make the difference. Also trust. The more you trust yourself the easier it will be for your fingers to find home. Trust takes practice.

Trust is an issue I'm having with the Instrument One. The fret spacing is rather wide and the fretboard markers are only along the side and not very identifiable in the dark. I simply have to play more.