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rod_zero
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2482 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:48 pm Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

Daags wrote:what does 'enhanced DAW integration' mean ? How can it more enhanced, in Ableton LIVE for example, than simply showing up as a vst ?
drag & drop audio/midi files into clips ? ... cos that would be pretty kool actually (the audio bit anyway)


This may be my first Maschine. I'll wait until the next major software update is released though (V3, ya?), and save myself the upgrade fee.


Watch the videos, it is now possible to control and see the DAW mixer in Maschine, There is also navigation across tracks and in Live it can launch clips and other stuff.
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Daags
KVRAF
 
1966 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Postby Daags; Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:58 pm Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

rod_zero wrote:
Daags wrote:what does 'enhanced DAW integration' mean ? How can it more enhanced, in Ableton LIVE for example, than simply showing up as a vst ?
drag & drop audio/midi files into clips ? ... cos that would be pretty kool actually (the audio bit anyway)


This may be my first Maschine. I'll wait until the next major software update is released though (V3, ya?), and save myself the upgrade fee.


Watch the videos, it is now possible to control and see the DAW mixer in Maschine, There is also navigation across tracks and in Live it can launch clips and other stuff.


Oh I see. For some reason I thought the mixer/tracks they were controlling with the hardware were from within the maschine software.

Surprised Ableton allowed this ... given it kind of encroaches on Push.
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rod_zero
KVRAF
 
2482 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:17 pm Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

Daags wrote:
rod_zero wrote:
Daags wrote:what does 'enhanced DAW integration' mean ? How can it more enhanced, in Ableton LIVE for example, than simply showing up as a vst ?
drag & drop audio/midi files into clips ? ... cos that would be pretty kool actually (the audio bit anyway)


This may be my first Maschine. I'll wait until the next major software update is released though (V3, ya?), and save myself the upgrade fee.


Watch the videos, it is now possible to control and see the DAW mixer in Maschine, There is also navigation across tracks and in Live it can launch clips and other stuff.


Oh I see. For some reason I thought the mixer/tracks they were controlling with the hardware were from within the maschine software.

Surprised Ableton allowed this ... given it kind of encroaches on Push.



Well in fact everyone has some access to the API via Scripts, that's why long before Push existed there were lemur templates and people like the dude at Nativekontrol.com who made quite complex scripts for many controllers.

So anyone can write scripts for controllers to use with Live, and the mixers volume feedback was one of them, control over session view too. In fact there is an article buried in ableton live answer page where it explains how to make a basic script.

But there is little to 0 documentation about advanced functions that are avaible via scripts. The dude from nativekontrol got quite far (he even works for ableton now) on his own, the functionality he developed for many controllers was impressive. He has now released a tool that makes scripts for any user upon a limited set of functions.

So Ableton doesn't prevent anyone from developing scripts for other controllers, they just don't provide documentation. In fact MAschine has had an script for quite sometime for controlling session view and launching clips, but with the screens they can now use the volume meters.
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Daags
KVRAF
 
1966 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Postby Daags; Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:24 pm Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

rod_zero wrote:
Daags wrote:
rod_zero wrote:
Daags wrote:what does 'enhanced DAW integration' mean ? How can it more enhanced, in Ableton LIVE for example, than simply showing up as a vst ?
drag & drop audio/midi files into clips ? ... cos that would be pretty kool actually (the audio bit anyway)


This may be my first Maschine. I'll wait until the next major software update is released though (V3, ya?), and save myself the upgrade fee.


Watch the videos, it is now possible to control and see the DAW mixer in Maschine, There is also navigation across tracks and in Live it can launch clips and other stuff.


Oh I see. For some reason I thought the mixer/tracks they were controlling with the hardware were from within the maschine software.

Surprised Ableton allowed this ... given it kind of encroaches on Push.



Well in fact everyone has some access to the API via Scripts, that's why long before Push existed there were lemur templates and people like the dude at Nativekontrol.com who made quite complex scripts for many controllers.

So anyone can write scripts for controllers to use with Live, and the mixers volume feedback was one of them, control over session view too. In fact there is an article buried in ableton live answer page where it explains how to make a basic script.

But there is little to 0 documentation about advanced functions that are avaible via scripts. The dude from nativekontrol got quite far (he even works for ableton now) on his own, the functionality he developed for many controllers was impressive. He has now released a tool that makes scripts for any user upon a limited set of functions.

So Ableton doesn't prevent anyone from developing scripts for other controllers, they just don't provide documentation. In fact MAschine has had an script for quite sometime for controlling session view and launching clips, but with the screens they can now use the volume meters.


thanks Rod for that detailed reply, appreciate it.

yes of course, when you say it it seems so obvious to me now. All those developments, APIs & scripts, I recall but I guess I fell out of the loop in this 'controllerism' aspect of LIVE since I run a very basic controller set up with basic midi input , same controllers since I started on LIVE back at version 4 :lol:

anyway, realising how naive I've been about Push/Maschine I guess I'll have some kind of 'zomfg!!' revelation when I finally get one.


=========================================

Does anyone think a 'Maschine Studio' upgrade is likely ?
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Klinke1
KVRist
 
471 posts since 18 Feb, 2011

Postby Klinke1; Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:09 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

Horizontal touch-strip and wheels for mod/pitch..+8 buttons.
How it should have been from get go.

...controlling 8 Tracks level/pan/mute/Solo in a DAW is nice..
but what is with sends?

---
For Cubase i made controller pages. (Maschine MK1 + KK MK1) Bi-directional midi..
No controller jumps.

Selected track:
- Quick-controls / Level / Solo / Mute / momentary Mute /momentary Solo (Momentary= On as long as button is pressed) / Track selection / 8 Sends
(Also pages like level/pan/6xSends = 8 knobs)

Knobs and buttons with the same CC number KK or Maschine. Can use a knob/button/momentary button/Maschine pads with the same CC numbers..Cubase has midi feedback.
Bi-directional to both at the same time -> turn a knob on KK and a button lights up on Maschine and DAW etc.
<->Turn a knob in DAW with mouse, both hardware knobs change/buttons light up accordingly.
<->Change track focus and hardware buttons/knobs change to what is set.

And for the first 8 tracks:
- 8x level / 8x mute / 8x solo / 2x 8 sends
- WonderEcho -
Tappistry
KVRist
 
251 posts since 2 Aug, 2017, from San Diego, CA

Postby Tappistry; Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:28 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

For someone who is planning on getting Komplete Standard in the future (primarily for Kontakt and the various pianos), and just getting started with virtual instruments in general, do you guys think the new S61 would be a good purchase for a first midi controller?
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DrGonzo
KVRAF
 
1920 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from A Swede Living in Budapest

Postby DrGonzo; Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:18 pm Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

Backsnack wrote:For someone who is planning on getting Komplete Standard in the future (primarily for Kontakt and the various pianos), and just getting started with virtual instruments in general, do you guys think the new S61 would be a good purchase for a first midi controller?


I own the Mk I and I only use it as my master controller (never use the NI Control-thingy). I know I'm missing out on a lot but the keybed has a fantastic feel. You will never regret having a keyboard with a nice feel.

/C
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Tappistry
KVRist
 
251 posts since 2 Aug, 2017, from San Diego, CA

Postby Tappistry; Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:05 pm Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

DrGonzo wrote:
Backsnack wrote:For someone who is planning on getting Komplete Standard in the future (primarily for Kontakt and the various pianos), and just getting started with virtual instruments in general, do you guys think the new S61 would be a good purchase for a first midi controller?


I own the Mk I and I only use it as my master controller (never use the NI Control-thingy). I know I'm missing out on a lot but the keybed has a fantastic feel. You will never regret having a keyboard with a nice feel.

/C


The other controller I'm considering is a Nektar Impact LX88+

Half the price for a full 88 semi-weighted keys, and has some automatic mapping to reaper. Also seems to be one of the only 88 key controllers that really utilizes the extra space up top of the panel and adds a touch pad bank, along with a nice amount of knobs and faders. While not as integrated with Komplete and NKS things, I feel like it could possibly be more versatile for utilizing the controller for more DAW functions as well.
fedexnman
KVRAF
 
2254 posts since 3 Jan, 2005

Postby fedexnman; Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:08 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

The Maschine MK3 has got my attention $599 .. Ive always wanted to get the Micro/Maschine but held back .... So my Audio interface is getting a little bit long in the tooth ... Firewire ... If the 2ins and 2outs are balanced 1/4 inch and the headphones is 1/4 inch , I may look into this , I don't need mic pre or phantom power ... I also have an old M-Audio trigger finger ... , So if this replaces 2 pieces of old gear and also the included software as well this seems like it could be a win win ... I guess I'll wait for further reviews , but by Xmas I'll figure out if this is for me or not .
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rod_zero
KVRAF
 
2482 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:07 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

Backsnack wrote:
DrGonzo wrote:
Backsnack wrote:For someone who is planning on getting Komplete Standard in the future (primarily for Kontakt and the various pianos), and just getting started with virtual instruments in general, do you guys think the new S61 would be a good purchase for a first midi controller?


I own the Mk I and I only use it as my master controller (never use the NI Control-thingy). I know I'm missing out on a lot but the keybed has a fantastic feel. You will never regret having a keyboard with a nice feel.

/C


The other controller I'm considering is a Nektar Impact LX88+

Half the price for a full 88 semi-weighted keys, and has some automatic mapping to reaper. Also seems to be one of the only 88 key controllers that really utilizes the extra space up top of the panel and adds a touch pad bank, along with a nice amount of knobs and faders. While not as integrated with Komplete and NKS things, I feel like it could possibly be more versatile for utilizing the controller for more DAW functions as well.



The keys on that controller are awful. If you want 88 keys and good key action get a digital piano : Yamaha P35, Casio PX160, add another controller later if you want knobs.
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rod_zero
KVRAF
 
2482 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:07 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

dbl post
Last edited by rod_zero on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tappistry
KVRist
 
251 posts since 2 Aug, 2017, from San Diego, CA

Postby Tappistry; Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:25 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

rod_zero wrote:
Backsnack wrote:
DrGonzo wrote:
Backsnack wrote:For someone who is planning on getting Komplete Standard in the future (primarily for Kontakt and the various pianos), and just getting started with virtual instruments in general, do you guys think the new S61 would be a good purchase for a first midi controller?


I own the Mk I and I only use it as my master controller (never use the NI Control-thingy). I know I'm missing out on a lot but the keybed has a fantastic feel. You will never regret having a keyboard with a nice feel.

/C


The other controller I'm considering is a Nektar Impact LX88+

Half the price for a full 88 semi-weighted keys, and has some automatic mapping to reaper. Also seems to be one of the only 88 key controllers that really utilizes the extra space up top of the panel and adds a touch pad bank, along with a nice amount of knobs and faders. While not as integrated with Komplete and NKS things, I feel like it could possibly be more versatile for utilizing the controller for more DAW functions as well.



The keys on that controller are awful. If you want 88 keys and good key action get a digital piano : Yamaha P35, Casio PX160, add another controller later if you want knobs.


Good to know.
machinesworking
KVRian
 
1098 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from seattle

Postby machinesworking; Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:08 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

rod_zero wrote:Akai released VIP 3.0 but I still think KK has had better support and the future looks better for it.

As I tought the costs of development and maintenance, as well as mapping of third party plugins has forced AKAI to open VIP and let third parties do it. Still I think it is doomed to fail because the ecosystem of AKAI is smaller and the company isn't as committed.

Can you create your own mappings for plug ins in KK? I don't see that in their PDFs? Right now there are more plug in manufacturers on board with VIP, and honestly NI have a history of abandoning things that aren't making them money, not updating for the next versions OSX/Windows even, do AKAI have that in their history?
I'm sitting here with a Remotes SL MKII, and of the two the obvious replacement for Kore and Automap is VIP. Granted I have Maschine Studio so I can use NKS(?) with Maschines knobs with any keyboard so it's not a huge failure if VIP is a flop for me, whereas I'm starring at my Rig Kontrol 3, not to mention Kore, Spectral Delay, etc. etc.
The main thing I think VIP is doing "wrong" is the price for just the software, they practically give it away at $50 or so and they corner the market or at least remain competitive with NI in this arena.
Daags
KVRAF
 
1966 posts since 19 Dec, 2014

Postby Daags; Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:33 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

fedexnman wrote:The Maschine MK3 has got my attention $599 .. Ive always wanted to get the Micro/Maschine but held back .... So my Audio interface is getting a little bit long in the tooth ... Firewire ... If the 2ins and 2outs are balanced 1/4 inch and the headphones is 1/4 inch , I may look into this , I don't need mic pre or phantom power ... I also have an old M-Audio trigger finger ... , So if this replaces 2 pieces of old gear and also the included software as well this seems like it could be a win win ... I guess I'll wait for further reviews , but by Xmas I'll figure out if this is for me or not .



if you decide to get a Maschine MK3 ... you should wait until they update the software. You'll save yourself $99 (which is the usual upgrade fee from older maschine version to new).

Perhaps not an issue for you, since I suspect by Xmas they will have updated the software by then.

worth keeping in mind at any rate.
Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
 
5511 posts since 12 May, 2008

Postby Echoes in the Attic; Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:07 am Re: Maschine MK3 and Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2

I wonder if you can do step sequencing on the kk keyboards when using machine. Since they have most of the same layout, you'd think so, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. It would be even more useful for melodic sequencing actually because you have the whole keyboard for note input. And you have more steps for input with the keys, could at least have 32. I also wonder if you can set and hit parameter locks or morph like on maschine.

I always wanted a Maschine controller that had keys instead of the pads (or 64 pads like Push) but I'm unclear about how much can be done with KK using Maschine. I wish they had some kind of comparison chart about what can be done on the hardware.
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