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0degree
KVRist
 
34 posts since 29 Jan, 2017, from London UK

Postby 0degree; Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:17 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

Cool, thanks guys!
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
12041 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:10 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

antic604 wrote:
maschinelf wrote:I do feel that this 1-year free update thing has just made things more confusing, and if anything all it does is encourage people to wait for the "right time", so maybe they should just drop it, but apart from that I have no complaints with the 2.1 update so far.


One idea that I had - and it would be kind of novel in terms of licensing scheme - would be a kickstarter for features. Basically, Bitwig would set up a webpage where users could post feature requests, with attached monetary value of said feature for them. Others could add their votes (and value). Once the feature is implemented, the user that posted it and those that voted would be charged for it. Obviously, this would exclude normal bug fixes, that should be free. The only drawback would be some users would refrain from up-voting certain features seeing they're popular anyway and would get them for free, but - personally - I wouldn't mind. If e.g. I got my alias clips for the $50 that they're worth for me I wouldn't mind someone else getting them for free.

This could be really beneficial for both sides, I think. The current system with sending individual support tickets is just messy, although - I can imagine - convenient for Bitwig, i.e. it's difficult to make them accountable for not implementing something. For other DAWs that I use - Live and Studio One - they have a dedicated sites with user requests & number of votes, so at least there's that and you can see certain tickets with huge number of votes (e.g. comping in Live) hanging there for years...


I would prefer no more 'innovation' in pricing models. Please just leave it as is for a while and let the dust settle
Quack Quack
KVRer
 
20 posts since 1 Dec, 2008

Postby Quack Quack; Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:53 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

So it's been over 6 months since the release, we got amp and a few bug fixes woot!
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svervs
KVRist
 
321 posts since 16 Mar, 2013, from BLN

Postby svervs; Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:36 pm Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

2.1.4 is here, but nothing to write home about.

FIXED Rare audio engine crash during audio playback.
FIXED Automation override was enabled when turning automated knobs also when stopped.
FIXED ASIO: The Int16LSB and Int24LSB formats resulted in noise for inputs.
SLiC
KVRAF
 
1929 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:11 pm Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

svervs wrote:2.1.4 is here, but nothing to write home about.

FIXED Rare audio engine crash during audio playback.
FIXED Automation override was enabled when turning automated knobs also when stopped.
FIXED ASIO: The Int16LSB and Int24LSB formats resulted in noise for inputs.


That is disappointing but I don't think we can class it as an update. Perhaps the real update will follow soon on the beta forum.
greenfly
KVRist
 
119 posts since 22 Jun, 2014

Postby greenfly; Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:29 pm Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

Look at it this way: Live 9 was introduced in March '13 (4.5 years ago) and along with subsequent updates it brought: 3 new Max4Live devices (so limited to Suite owners), improvements to Simpler, new filter algorithms, meters showing both peak & RMS and Link.

Compare that with 25 modulators, 17 new devices & overhaul to the existing ones, deep hardware integration, VST3 support, etc. in those 7 months and you should feel better :)

 


....and a kick ass PUSH 2 midi controller. Push 2 is so good that Native Instruments have had to bring out the Jam and Maschine 3 just to compete.
Impodiam
KVRer
 
24 posts since 10 Aug, 2017

Postby Impodiam; Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:34 pm Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

Green Fly has a point.
Abletons splash into intergrating hardware is probably why they haven't updated Live nearly as much.
Compare that to Bitwig, a software only company at the moment...

Not trying to hate however. Like i said I like bitwig, I am just cautious with it with whats going on with this.
stamp
KVRist
 
323 posts since 10 Sep, 2014

Postby stamp; Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:32 pm Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

svervs wrote:2.1.4 is here, but nothing to write home about.

FIXED Rare audio engine crash during audio playback.
FIXED Automation override was enabled when turning automated knobs also when stopped.
FIXED ASIO: The Int16LSB and Int24LSB formats resulted in noise for inputs.


Is it the 1st of april already?
SLiC
KVRAF
 
1929 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:53 pm Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

greenfly wrote:
Look at it this way: Live 9 was introduced in March '13 (4.5 years ago) and along with subsequent updates it brought: 3 new Max4Live devices (so limited to Suite owners), improvements to Simpler, new filter algorithms, meters showing both peak & RMS and Link.

Compare that with 25 modulators, 17 new devices & overhaul to the existing ones, deep hardware integration, VST3 support, etc. in those 7 months and you should feel better :)

 


....and a kick ass PUSH 2 midi controller. Push 2 is so good that Native Instruments have had to bring out the Jam and Maschine 3 just to compete.


it is probably because Ableton went in to making USB controllers that they haven't significantly updated their software for 5 years opening the Door (DAW) for Bitwig. It seems that software companies get to a certain size and then start in to hardware (arturia, NI, Live etc)

If you like a Push then this is a valid diversion for Ableton (I didn't and sold mine) but I think a lot of users would have preferred some key new features as voted for on the Live site.
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antic604
KVRist
 
185 posts since 4 Jan, 2017, from Warsaw, Poland

Postby antic604; Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:36 pm Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

Impodiam wrote:Green Fly has a point.
Abletons splash into intergrating hardware is probably why they haven't updated Live nearly as much.
Compare that to Bitwig, a software only company at the moment...

Not trying to hate however. Like i said I like bitwig, I am just cautious with it with whats going on with this.


Yes, but 1) Push is not a perfect controller for every type of music, b) 90% of its functionality for Bitwig is available with Launchpad Pro (or Push, if you're so inclined) and probably some other controllers I'm not familiar with.
ejgallego
KVRist
 
71 posts since 8 Mar, 2017

Postby ejgallego; Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:38 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

Honestly I wish this thread faded away; from my perspective as a professional software developer the BW folks are doing better than OK with the update rate; and I think the pricing model is pretty fair too, even on the cheap side I'd say.
Excds
KVRist
 
144 posts since 27 Mar, 2014

Postby Excds; Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:44 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

ejgallego wrote:Honestly I wish this thread faded away; from my perspective as a professional software developer the BW folks are doing better than OK with the update rate; and I think the pricing model is pretty fair too, even on the cheap side I'd say.


This!
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drakmaniso
KVRist
 
137 posts since 27 Jul, 2015

Postby drakmaniso; Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:10 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

The problem with the current model was never the price.

With a traditional "pay for major updates" model, when you buy a version, you know that at the end of its life-cycle, it will be reasonably bug-free.

With the model Bitwig have chosen, they have an incentive to continuously introduce new features, which means new bugs (that's how development works, for everyone). When you buy Bitwig, you have no way to know if during your 1 year of updates, you'll have a reasonably bug-free version or not. And it's difficult to just wait for a "good" version to buy, because some of the most annoying bugs don't show up while demoing a product, they show up during real work.

As for the frequency of the updates, I think it's perfectly fine (especially given the size of their team), but IMHO the semi-subscription model leads to disproportionate expectations.
SLiC
KVRAF
 
1929 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:20 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

2.2 Beta is out, pile over to the new thread!

viewtopic.php?p=6872432
greenfly
KVRist
 
119 posts since 22 Jun, 2014

Postby greenfly; Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:56 am Re: waiting for the machine gun roll out

antic604 wrote:
Impodiam wrote:Green Fly has a point.
Abletons splash into intergrating hardware is probably why they haven't updated Live nearly as much.
Compare that to Bitwig, a software only company at the moment...

Not trying to hate however. Like i said I like bitwig, I am just cautious with it with whats going on with this.


Yes, but 1) Push is not a perfect controller for every type of music, b) 90% of its functionality for Bitwig is available with Launchpad Pro (or Push, if you're so inclined) and probably some other controllers I'm not familiar with.



Yeah, I agree. Both Bitwig and Ableton are suited very well for different genres of House and Electronic Music. I think for Sample chopping and producing HipHop/Down tempo stuff Push 2 beats Maschine 2 in its current configuration. Maschine 3 looks pretty dope and it's great they've introduced a soundcard but I've not been that wowed with the demos to be honest because they've not spoken about any new enhancements to their sample chopping workflow which is a key aspect of this controller and is the main reason why so many people started to use it over old MPC/SP1200 hardware units.

Any Midi controller can be used to control any DAW but you need a great memory to remember the mapping. Push 2 for Ableton and Maschine for Maschine are both very intuitive to use because they've been designed with the software in mind.

In any case 2.2 beta is out with Ableton link so If you are an Ableton head like me, you now get a type of free update for Live by being able to use the functionality of Bitwig to run in sync with Ableton, and then export stems after using the Bitwig features you mentioned earlier or vice versa. I'm glad Bitwig integrated Link because I agree with quite a lot of the comments in relation to their modulators.
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