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Native access?

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fmr
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6432 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:17 am Re: Native access?

pekbro wrote:ProgramData is just a predefined folder destination for installshield,
it is not compulsory to use it. Even as a default, typically you would
group things in a unique directory, rather than clogging things up
with tons of flagged, product coded files.

Sorry, a well planned and considerate installation is not going to
resemble what NI has done at all.

-Cheers

Guidelines exist for a reason - so that third party programmers and builders, users, maintenance technicians, etc. know where to look for something. This is almost "enforced" in Mac OS X, where you can't have custom plug-ins folders, and all the support files go to Library/Application Support, for example - and has been like that since the very beginning of OS X. Even the applications themselves are self contained bundles, that only sees a double-clickable icon, and some system folders are hidden as well.

It's good to see NI follow the guidelines from the OS builders. If all the programmers followed as well, we would certainly had much less troubles to get the OS working always properly and with no issues. So, "a well planned and considerate installation" is the one the follows the guidelines from the OS makers . It's the safest path certainly, IMO

I have installed Komplete 11 this Summer over previous installations of Komplete, and didn't have any problems. I also installed it from scratch on another system, and didn't have a problem either. I left everything as default, therefore, the plug-ins are installed in Program Files/Native Instruments.

The only custom directories I use are for the libraries, but after I set those, everything goit installed properly.

I then go there, and copy the DLLs to the proper VstPlugIns folders, leaving the originals untouched. Never had a problem.

For those that are experiencing problems my advice is: Uninstall EVERYTHING, then reinstall using Native Access. All your problems will probably vanish.
Fernando (FMR)
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Mace404
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345 posts since 12 Mar, 2005

Postby Mace404; Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:38 am Re: Native access?

EvilDragon wrote:
Orbit-50 wrote:What makes everything worse, is that the Native Instruments installer pukes files in every corner of of the file system so manual uninstalls of broken paths are are even harder to do.


Paths where stuff is placed didn't change between SC and NA - in the background exactly the same installers are used. NI is just following MS guidelines on where what kind of data should go, so yes, you will get uninstallers in ProgramData because that's how InstallShield works, you will get factory data in Common Files\Native Instruments because that's where it's supposed to go, you will get all the database stuff in AppData\Local\Native Instruments because that's where it's supposed to go as well, and you will get the NKS stuff installed to Public folder because it's supposed to be installed for all users. It is NOT a good practice to put everything in Program Files (this is where just the standalone executables and documentation is supposed to go), so NI doesn't do it. As per MS guidelines.

None of this changed because of Native Access, it's all how it used to be years before, going back to Kore and even before it.

This. NI is actually one of the few developers doing it right/as per MS guidelines.
Elektronisch
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1532 posts since 3 Feb, 2010

Postby Elektronisch; Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:42 am Re: Native access?

Am i the only one who doesnt have Native Access problems and thinks its way better then Service Center was?

I have 0 problems since day 1 release and simple to use. I had problems with Service center, i sitll cant activate Traktor on my Desktop. I hope it will be transfered to Native Access platform soon.
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pekbro
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1291 posts since 29 Sep, 2010, from Maui

Postby pekbro; Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:49 am Re: Native access?

But they are not guidelines, they are just the defaults for the most basic
installation project template provided by the software. Nobody does it the way NI
does. If anything, it makes it harder for "anyone" to find the stuff.
They're literally just making a mess for everyone to have to wade through.

There is no way MS is recommending that you just spray your stuff randomly
into the programdata directory. Which is exactly what they do.

Obviously companies like Nvidia and even Microsoft themselves are doing it wrong.

*TBH, the only reason I can think of, for doing things the way they do, would
be to account for problems in their own distribution system.
Last edited by pekbro on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Arcvidean
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200 posts since 23 Feb, 2006, from Dematerialising

Postby Arcvidean; Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:39 am Re: Native access?

HiEnergy wrote:For me Native Access is a big step backwards as I have no Internet connection on my studio computer and Native Access does not offer any offline options where Service Center did.
So for me NI is basically a dead end now. I'll use what I have (Komplete 9, Kontakt 5.6.6) and not update or buy anything new from them as long as possible.


Precisely the same here. Seems like they aren't concerned. :dog:

Arcvidean
sjm
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1032 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Postby sjm; Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:34 am Re: Native access?

fmr wrote:For those that are experiencing problems my advice is: Uninstall EVERYTHING, then reinstall using Native Access. All your problems will probably vanish.


It's still a royal PITA though, and shouldn't be necessary. Installing and downloading all of Komplete Ultimate (including manually uninstalling multiple botched installation and re-downloading because it's too daft to save the installer where you can find it) took me 2 days. And even after all that, I had to use a "hack" to get Guitar Rig out of demo mode.

I think NI's silence and lack of support regarding this matter is deeply disturbing. It's obvious that Native Access has lots of huge issues, but none of them seem to be being addressed. And it's been what, a year now?
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Orbit-50
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2113 posts since 28 Jun, 2005, from La La Land

Postby Orbit-50; Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:27 am Re: Native access?

fmr wrote:For those that are experiencing problems my advice is: Uninstall EVERYTHING, then reinstall using Native Access. All your problems will probably vanish.

That's what I figure I have to do. Thanks all of you guys for the input. Also when I said pukes files all over the place it's relevant to my situation because I now have to handpick everything and manually delete it. For some bizarre reason I cannot uninstall it from the control panel. God knows where the uninstallers went. I'll take your advice and hopefully this problem goes away. On the flip side I love native access because it's a beautiful software as far as layout simplicity and visual appeal is concerned. I would just get so pissed off because of all the problems I'm having and can't understand why. I will report back.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Alienware i7 R3 loaded with billions of DAWS and plugins.
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fmr
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6432 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:42 am Re: Native access?

Orbit-50 wrote:
fmr wrote:For those that are experiencing problems my advice is: Uninstall EVERYTHING, then reinstall using Native Access. All your problems will probably vanish.

That's what I figure I have to do. Thanks all of you guys for the input. Also when I said pukes files all over the place it's relevant to my situation because I now have to handpick everything and manually delete it. For some bizarre reason I cannot uninstall it from the control panel. God knows where the uninstallers went. I'll take your advice and hopefully this problem goes away. On the flip side I love native access because it's a beautiful software as far as layout simplicity and visual appeal is concerned. I would just get so pissed off because of all the problems I'm having and can't understand why. I will report back.


You'll have to manually delete the registry entries, otherwise, you'll not be able to reinstall using Native Access. Try iObit Uninstaller to see if it can help you uninstalling what you already have. It also deletes all the registry entries automatically.
Fernando (FMR)
Kr3eM
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250 posts since 1 Sep, 2007

Postby Kr3eM; Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:54 am Re: Native access?

Arcvidean wrote:
HiEnergy wrote:For me Native Access is a big step backwards as I have no Internet connection on my studio computer and Native Access does not offer any offline options where Service Center did.
So for me NI is basically a dead end now. I'll use what I have (Komplete 9, Kontakt 5.6.6) and not update or buy anything new from them as long as possible.


Precisely the same here. Seems like they aren't concerned. :dog:

Arcvidean


+1
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EvilDragon
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15097 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:08 am Re: Native access?

Arcvidean wrote:
HiEnergy wrote:For me Native Access is a big step backwards as I have no Internet connection on my studio computer and Native Access does not offer any offline options where Service Center did.
So for me NI is basically a dead end now. I'll use what I have (Komplete 9, Kontakt 5.6.6) and not update or buy anything new from them as long as possible.


Precisely the same here. Seems like they aren't concerned. :dog:


I guess they aren't, considering the GREAT majority of their userbase is online (I'd venture saying there's less than 5% of NI userbase that doesn't have their DAW online - of course, NI got more precise data in the target polls they did).
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fmr
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6432 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:10 am Re: Native access?

Kr3eM wrote:
Arcvidean wrote:
HiEnergy wrote:For me Native Access is a big step backwards as I have no Internet connection on my studio computer and Native Access does not offer any offline options where Service Center did.
So for me NI is basically a dead end now. I'll use what I have (Komplete 9, Kontakt 5.6.6) and not update or buy anything new from them as long as possible.


Precisely the same here. Seems like they aren't concerned. :dog:

Arcvidean


+1

So, you don't update your OS either? NEVER? Unless you remain forever with that computer and that OS version, and don't update ANYTHING, I don't see a future for you.
Fernando (FMR)
sjm
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1032 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Postby sjm; Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:42 am Re: Native access?

fmr wrote:
Kr3eM wrote:
Arcvidean wrote:
HiEnergy wrote:I'll use what I have (Komplete 9, Kontakt 5.6.6) and not update or buy anything new from them as long as possible.


Precisely the same here. Seems like they aren't concerned. :dog:

Arcvidean


+1

So, you don't update your OS either? NEVER? Unless you remain forever with that computer and that OS version, and don't update ANYTHING, I don't see a future for you.


There's always the possibility that NI fix this mess. Slim, sure, given their buzz of activity in regard, but isn't it a bit early to completely give up on that happening?
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fmr
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6432 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:45 am Re: Native access?

sjm wrote: There's always the possibility that NI fix this mess. Slim, sure, given their buzz of activity in regard, but isn't it a bit early to completely give up on that happening?

What "mess" exactly are you talking about?

I'd say that, for the vast majority of users Native Access is working. I'd even say that it is better than the previous system (for me, it is). Now, the latest complaints are about not having the possibility to authorize and download offline installers. Given the current trend followed by most developers, including OS makers, I'd risk to say that someone who wants to remain always offline is pretty much condemned. :borg:
Last edited by fmr on Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)
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Numanoid
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25999 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:32 am Re: Native access?

chk071 wrote:
fmr wrote:It's probably your fault.

It probably is. Because it works here just fine on 2 computers.

The customer is always correct according to my info.

NI owe themselves to make the preference window ["it is important that you set you desired preference (including vst paths) before installing anything"] open first after installing Native Access.
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fmr
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6432 posts since 16 Mar, 2003, from Porto - Portugal

Postby fmr; Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:54 am Re: Native access?

Numanoid wrote:
chk071 wrote:
fmr wrote:It's probably your fault.

It probably is. Because it works here just fine on 2 computers.

The customer is always correct according to my info.

NI owe themselves to make the preference window ["it is important that you set you desired preference (including vst paths) before installing anything"] open first after installing Native Access.

Or maybe Microsoft should do as Apple does - customer does nothing, has no choices, and then they can't f**k up anything :shrug:

On OS X you have no choices where to install anything. Everything has destinations pre-settled. Only path you can choose is the one for libraries.

Even if NI would do that as you say, I bet that some users would not choose anything, close the dialog box, and after installing would complain that the installers didn't work correctly :shrug:
Fernando (FMR)
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