Waves Vocal Rider only $29 now - good buy?

[SparkySpark]

Hi,

For quite a while, Waves Vocal Rider has been reduced to $69. I just noticed that the price has been slashed further, to a tempting $29. I know this is typical for Waves, but nonetheless - is it a plugin worth buying now? Or are there better alternatives for a reasonable price (Hornet's plugin comes to mind, but according to Melda, MAutoVolume is not comparable).

I've got the same question really about their Ultramaximiser, now also $29. I guess is that there are more competitors there.

(I have very little time for my hobby projects, so I am very interested in a fast workflow. Also, my interest is composing rather than extensive mixing/mastering. I do understand that for a talented mixing engineer there would be better options than these products.)

Thanks!

[SparkySpark]

By the way, I can't understand why auto vocal riding is not integrated in all DAWs. It should be (I think) a rather simple task checking the audio track's volume against the rest of the mix and simply adjust the audio level accordingly and add some release time (which is what Vocal Rides does, as I understand it).

To me, riding the volume fader seems much more appetizing than compressing the audio, as that always has an impact on the original sound, and would be harder to control anyway.

[SparkySpark]

By the way, I can't understand why auto vocal riding is not integrated in all DAWs. It should be (I think) a rather simple task checking the audio track's volume against the rest of the mix and simply adjust the audio level accordingly and add some release time (which is what Vocal Rides does, as I understand it).

To me, riding the volume fader seems much more appetizing than compressing the audio, as that always has an impact on the original sound, and would be harder to control anyway.

replying to myself here...

Actually, it seems Computer Music was asking the same question as I was - why isn't this included in DAWs?:
"AutoGain’s main purpose is leveling vocals and lead lines, which it does nicely. A sidechain monitor button might be useful, but this is a bargain-priced winner – it makes you wonder why this sort of thing isn’t built into DAWs as standard. 9/10"

Anyway, I just found that Hornet has two riding plugins: AutoGain Pro ($29, i.e. the same price as Vocal Rider; https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/h ... ogain-pro/ ) and AutoGain for less than half that price ( https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-autogain/ ). So: thoughts on AutoGain vs Vocal Rider, now that Vocal Rider is in the same price range?

[electricthing]

I bought Vocal Rider and just tried it. Used carefully it works good for me.
For me that means 1.5 db up or down for range and a lower sensitivity.
Than write and read it for maybe some later tweaks.
I like the results.
I first insert a VUmeter that does not go over 1db.
After Vocal Rider I insert another VU meter.
But I set the Rider by ear, the range and senstivity.

I had and sold Autogain and MAutoVolume but I must admit that I am so much more aware of gain nowadays than I was when I had those.

Can the Vocal Rider help me get to a decent starting point quicker (before hitting a compressor); yes.
Of course you can demo other brands as well.

I must say that Waves plugins often give me a faster decent result than some other brands, I think they are well designed for that. The no brainer sales lately make it easier to grab a few of them.

[UltimateOutsider]

Anyway, I just found that Hornet has two riding plugins: AutoGain Pro ($29, i.e. the same price as Vocal Rider; https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/h ... ogain-pro/ ) and AutoGain for less than half that price ( https://www.hornetplugins.com/plugins/hornet-autogain/ ). So: thoughts on AutoGain vs Vocal Rider, now that Vocal Rider is in the same price range?

I am a big fan of HoRNet and while I own AutoGain I have never actually used it. Vocal Rider, on the other hand, is on every track I've produced in the past 4 years.

While I don't doubt that AutoGain does the trick, I'm a Cubase user, so Waves' VST3 support means I can use Cubase's native sidechaining, whereas I believe HoRNet is VST 2 only, meaning I'd probably have to do some funky routing tricks to get the sidechain working properly. It's something I've done many times with VST 2.4 plugins, but Vocal Rider already does what I need and all I have to do is click the sidechain button and route the output of my instrumental submix to it. (These are only Windows concerns, I imagine.)

EDIT: I also like Vocal Rider's ability to write volume automation in case you need to tweak things manually, but I've only once ever had to override its default behavior one time once I had the ideal sensitivity and thresholds dialed in.

[SparkySpark]

Thank you so much for your helpful replies. I'm still thinking of the differences between the Hornet AutoGain and the Vocal Rider in terms of detection/resulting sound. I think the only way to tell which one gives the best results (whatever "best" is) would be to download both and do an A/B test. But perhaps they are "equally good" (i.e. just do the trick)?

I'm trying them out right now anyway.

...but Hey - a 150 MB download for Waves Central, just to be able to demo stuff from them? I start to feel the fear of companies taking over my computer (like Adobe).

[Boone777]

Hornet has no f**ing around installation it's a huge advantage IMO. But I don't know if it's better than Waves. Saverio updates his stuff constantly and it's free I'm very happy with purchases I did with Hornet very cheap. I do own a bunch of Waves I like the plugins but the bummer is installation and forget about resell unless you WUP wich is often not worth it.

[Rockatansky]

I have Hornet AutoGain Pro (not mk2) and it kinda does what it should, but suffers from the usual Hornet quirks.
If Min/Max gain are linked, the knob you control moves smoothly between values, but the linked knob jumps between full steps.
Detector Attack/Release as well as side-chain HPF/LPF can only be used if external sidechain is used. Why ever.
Detector Attack/Release can still be linked/unlinked, even though inactive.
Peak and RMS detection can be switched, but RMS size can't be set.
Apart from the somewhat cluttered feeling GUI, it's pretty straight-forward and it's easy to get usable fader rides.

Waves Vocal Rider feels more like a real plugin, the GUI is cleaner and more organized.
I assume Fast/Slow modes are similar to Peak/RMS detection, RMS size can also not be user controlled.
Set target volume, set maximum boost amount, set maximum attenuation amount, set "center" gain level when not riding. Couldn't be easier.

That said, I somehow feel like I can hear Vocal Rider working, I just always sense it's there. I can get AutoGain to work a bit more transparently, but maybe that's just because I can control the fader's riding envelope speeds. No clue.

Regarding price and copy protection, Hornet AutoGain Pro is a total winner compared to Waves Vocal Rider.
It's just the GUI that somehow alienates me and makes me go for WVR first.

[SparkySpark]

Thank you so much for your helpful replies!

For my purposes (just doing an overall taming of the lead vocal (or maybe a backup vocal), I think I would go with the original AutoGain anyway, which is very easy to use and uncluttered (even less controls than WVR, and maybe also better looking).

So, keeping in mind that I really dislike "hassleware" (mega downloads, quirky copy protection schemes etc), I think I'll go with Hornet anyway, regardless of the fact the WVR has now dropped 90 (!) percent in price.

Thanks again!

[simon.a.billington]

Using a gain riding plugin, whether it be Vocal Rider, AutoGain, or whatever can actually be a great time saving tool.

The great thing is it doesn’t necessarily exclude the use of a compressor either. You can set it up in such a way that it just adds or takes away a few dB allowing your compressor to be more effective at its job.

It effectively is a just a gain plugin following automation instructions. At the end of the day if there are a few changes you’d like to make to it’s automation, just simply write it out and have all the control you want.

[Aloysius]

I didn't read all the posts. Be sure that the product is fully compatible with your DAW if you decide to purchase. Waves have a compatibility page on their website.

[ramseysounds]

I bought this in one of their $29 specials. (I know I know.....)
It's pretty good if used correctly but I found it was one of the sources of peak load on my DAW - Cubase 9. Tend not to use so much now.

YMMV

[simon.a.billington]

I didn't read all the posts. Be sure that the product is fully compatible with your DAW if you decide to purchase. Waves have a compatibility page on their website.

Good point. Like most over devs, Waves will tend to leave older OS systems behind.

[Googly Smythe]

A DIY solution... Uses Cubase but should be adaptable to any DAW.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ocal-rider

[simon.a.billington]

A DIY solution... Uses Cubase but should be adaptable to any DAW.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... ocal-rider

Not a bad solution. Doesn’t ride any gain though and relies on dynamics processing, but should do a similar style of job for those who can’t afford the real thing.

Quite educational.