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antic604
KVRist
 
328 posts since 4 Jan, 2017, from Warsaw, Poland

Postby antic604; Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:28 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

Damn, I feel out of place actually being happy about this upgrade, although I'm in a quite different position than most of you - I got Neutron 1 Standard a month ago half the price used and upgraded now to Neutron 2 Advanced for roughly $150, which on top of the new features gives me separate plugins, for which - when v2 wasn't yet available - I'd have to pay $100.

Regarding the features themselves:

- the Mix Assistant really does a noticeably good job for me - I just put several instances on the most important channels or mix buses, let them do their magic and it DOES sound better, requiring little to no tweaking other than sometimes I heave to help it recognising correct type of instrument; obviously I'm not a pro (or even a semi-pro or pro hobbyist), so I might not see the obvious room for improvements or flat-out flaws there, but then I think it is a product actually for people like me;

- I really like how simple, but at the same time powerful the EQ module is - dynamic EQ and internal / external side-chaining (available in v1, too) are awesome, although one thing I'm missing is being able to put some effects or filtering at the side-chaining source (e.g. a band-pass filter to just react to the click of kick, instead to the whole low-end body of it);

- I love how every module is multiband, allowing to limit the processing to specified frequency range - it's not an obvious feature especially for Gate or Transient Shaper, but it's a very welcome one;

- Visual Mixer for now seems like a gimmick, but I'm yet to try it in the context of finished track that has to be mixed - I like the idea of being able to quickly adjust levels, panning and width of all my channels from one place and see them in relation to each other, A/B/C different setups, etc.; one missed opportunity is they could've added some sort of light parametric EQ to all of their plugins at the output section where Limiter is, so that in Visual Mixer we could also quickly cut or boost low, mid and hig frequencies per channel by dragging some vertical nodes coming out of the 'bubbles' representing individual tracks;

- Tonal Balance Control is an awesome feature hands down, allowing to quickly reference your mix to 3 predefined presets (modern, bass-heavy and orchestral), but also to import your own reference tracks and/or folders and add those to the presets - it's really handy, when you've heard your track 100+ times and can't be objective anymore; the above idea about adding small parametric EQ to each plugin - Mix Tap in particular - would also make it useful for tracks with no Neutron instance on them;

- one drawback for me (not huge at the moment, because I'm primarily on Bitwig) is that the UI is still not scaleable which means that in Live or Studio One on my Surface Pro 4 the plug-in is very small. The pictures are still from Neutron v1, but it's the same in v2. Imagine that on a small 12'' screen:

Bitwig 2:

Image

Live 9:

Image

Studio One 3:

Image
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604
Hardware: Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB, Arturia Minilab, Bayerdynamic DT990 Pro
DAWs: Bitwig 2, Live 9 Suite, Studio One 3 Pro
Plugins: Bazille, Reaktor 6, Codex, Element 2.0, Phoscyon, Neutron 2, H-Series Bundle
RichN
KVRist
 
118 posts since 4 Dec, 2004, from The Netherlands

Postby RichN; Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:01 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

jsp1979 wrote:Try the big Iris 2 thread as well. Or one if the Breaktweaker threads.



Two examples of products that Izotope abandoned not that long after release. No bug fixes, no improvements, no further development.

I think customers have every right to complain.
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Vortifex
KVRist
 
405 posts since 1 Sep, 2016

Postby Vortifex; Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:18 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

I gave them both a demo yesterday. The Track Assistant function in Ozone 8 was quite handy, but I found I could do better myself. The maximizer wasn't very good at catching ISPs, regularly overshooting the ceiling by 0.3db or so even with True Peak enabled. The Tonal Balance Control visual was actually quite useful. Loved the Exciter. The latency and CPU hit were significant.

Neutron's CPU hit was very light, although there was still significant latency. Tried the Track Assistant across a few mixes and found I spent more time correcting the settings than if I'd just started from scratch with my existing plugins.

Overall I couldn't see a justification for spending the money on these when I can get just as good results with plugins I already own, but if I were starting with a clean sheet as it were then I can see the value in it as a one-stop shop.
jsp1979
KVRAF
 
2567 posts since 7 Aug, 2008

Postby jsp1979; Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:52 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

RichN wrote:
jsp1979 wrote:Try the big Iris 2 thread as well. Or one if the Breaktweaker threads.



Two examples of products that Izotope abandoned not that long after release. No bug fixes, no improvements, no further development.

I think customers have every right to complain.


You've read into what I said. Where did I say customers didn't have a right to complain? I agree that the that they never should have released and then abandoned Iris 2.

I'm pointing out the odd love/hate relationship seen in the general tenor of the Izotope threads. When Izotope releases new editions, there is much wailing, swearing off of Izotope, and saying that they'll look elsewhere because of the high upgrade prices. (Note: I'm not saying the complaints are not justified.) When they have a big sale, people are back on board with how great the products are and people seem really high on Izotope. Then they release a new edition with the usual (at least in recent history) upgrade prices, and many are back to saying they'll stop buying Izotope. It'll probably swing back in the other direction with the next big sale.

If anything, it highlights some of the melodramatic "I'll never eat at THAT restaurant again!" type comments that new Izotope editions seem to bring. I'm guessing that some percentage of those people do in fact buy when the next big deal comes out.

I think the new editions look great, but they're too high for my blood right now. I'll wait for the inevitable sale and if the price is right, then I'll jump.

NOTE: Because apparently this must be said in KVR threads now, I'm providing GENERAL observations from my perspective. There may exist exceptions to my observations. I acknowledge that.
noiseboyuk
KVRAF
 
1776 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Postby noiseboyuk; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:22 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

FWIW, I think it's all fair comment jsp. iZotope have done some of the best bargains in the business - "its a no brainer! Can't be resisted!" and also some more inexplicable decisions - "I'll never eat in this restaurant again". Likewise the quality of their products is hugely variable. RX6 is the stuff of revolution, stunning innovation and execution. Breaktweaker is quite well conceived, but staggeringly badly executed, then abandoned. Overall though they're a company I always look out for because when they're good they're very good, and not many companies truly innovate.

From the feedback so far here, this feels like a somewhere-in-the-middle release and of course as an upgrade wildly overpriced. I fear the visual mixer is nothing more than a gimmick in its current version. I can't see how it can accurately evaluate a level of a track so until it can do that it's a waste of space, and really it needs to be integrated with spatialisation a la SPAT to offer something that can really use the visual element. Other features look far more promising, though I still think their demo of tonal balance was poor.
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ilmai
KVRist
 
120 posts since 25 Aug, 2016, from Helsinki, Finland

Postby ilmai; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

Vortifex wrote:Overall I couldn't see a justification for spending the money on these when I can get just as good results with plugins I already own, but if I were starting with a clean sheet as it were then I can see the value in it as a one-stop shop.


This is actually the route I tried to take as a newb (well, more newb than at the moment), but I didn't feel like I learned much from seeing what the track assistant was doing, which was kinda what originally drew me to Neutron.

I ended up going for Pro-Q and TDR / Klanghelm plugins for mixing & mastering and learning from the ground up, and I'm much happier now. The Pro-Q interface is awesome for learning about how EQ works, and the TDR and Klanghelm plugins somehow just feel better for me. I certainly feel like the attitude of those developers is a lot healthier than the marketing bombast of iZotope.
noiseboyuk
KVRAF
 
1776 posts since 25 Jan, 2007

Postby noiseboyuk; Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:19 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

Well well, that was quick - good on them. Just received this email:

At iZotope, we make it a point to stay connected to our community of passionate customers. Whether it's product research, surveys, or reading the comments on social media, your opinion matters to us. Last week, we announced Ozone 8 and Neutron 2, and some Music Production Bundle 2 customers expressed concern over pricing.

Effective today through October 31, you can now upgrade to the O8N2 Bundle for the introductory price of $199. The O8N2 Bundle includes Ozone 8 Advanced, Neutron 2 Advanced, and the new Tonal Balance Control plug-in. You still have the option of getting the Music Production Suite with RX 6 Standard for $299.

We are extremely proud of the new versions of Ozone and Neutron. A lot of hard work, research, and effort went into creating these two products. We hope this new price change will allow more customers to get access to our new products and enjoy the integrated workflow of Ozone 8 and Neutron 2.


(psst... hope they give some credit for those who already bought at the big ass price....)
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http://www.afterschoolvideoclub.com/
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antic604
KVRist
 
328 posts since 4 Jan, 2017, from Warsaw, Poland

Postby antic604; Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:34 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

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Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604
Hardware: Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB, Arturia Minilab, Bayerdynamic DT990 Pro
DAWs: Bitwig 2, Live 9 Suite, Studio One 3 Pro
Plugins: Bazille, Reaktor 6, Codex, Element 2.0, Phoscyon, Neutron 2, H-Series Bundle
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JohnnyA
KVRist
 
65 posts since 9 Apr, 2015, from Sweden

Postby JohnnyA; Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:06 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

@antic604

That is nice of them. At least it's something. It looks like this:

x.png


Anyone who owns MPB and just wants the new Ozone 8 and Neutron 2 can enjoy that $199 price. And since people's current MPB2 license already contains the rest of the products (except RX 6 Standard), you end up with the same products as buying Suite.

The problem I have with it is simple:

If I buy O8N2 Bundle, I will only have Music Production Bundle 2 + O8N2 Bundle.

I will NOT have Music Production Suite 1.

So in the future, when Music Production Suite 2 comes out, I will NOT have any direct upgrade paths "from MPS 1 to MPS 2". So I'd have to buy some kinda O2N2 to MPS 2 or MPB 2 to MPS2 crossgrade, which would end up paying more in the end compared to people who go from MPS 1 to MPS 2. So their offer is still not good enough. In fact it's not a discount at all. Buying this "$199 O8N2 offer" would end up costing MORE next year when it's time to pay again...

$199 for MPB2 to the REAL Music Production Suite would have been more in the correct ballpark for the small upgrades the new Ozone 8 and Neutron 2 offer. And honestly $99-$149 is the correct price. They didn't add any new features that actually affect the audio...

It's obvious that Ozone 8 and Neutron 2 are mainly "technological groundwork for future innovation", by having rewritten Ozone to be able to communicate with Neutron. So that's cool but it doesn't really do anything new... Yet. But it WILL when Music Production Suite 2 comes out. Because after their Ozone 8 rewrite they are now able to focus on adding FEATURES since they are done with changing the core tech.

So my analysis stands: I will wait for Music Production Suite 2 in Oct 2018 and upgrade from Bundle 2 to it, paying +$100 compared to people who come from MPS 1. (http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5#p6891966)

By then they should have worthwhile new/updated products in their 2nd suite.

I am sure SOME people will be happy to go from Bundle 2 to O8+N2 though. So it's still nice that they did SOMETHING. But to me, it makes no sense. Because it would be something like this:

Going from MPB2 to MPS1 now and then MPS2 later:

- Music Production Bundle 2 to Music Production Suite: $299
- Music Production Suite 1 to Suite 2: $199/299
Total cost to own MPS2: $498 or $598

Going from MPB2 to MPS2 later (skipping MPS1):

- Music Production Bundle 2 to Suite 2: $299/399
Total cost to own MPS2: $299 or $399.

Going from MPB2 to O8N2 now and then MPS2 later:
- Music Production Bundle 2 to O8N2 Bundle: $199
- O8N2 Bundle to Music Production Suite 2: $399/499
Total cost to own MPS2: $598 or $698

So the "generous deal" they just offered us to make up for the high cost is actually the WORST DEAL OF THEM ALL.

Music Production Suite 1 is such a tiny upgrade. So all I care about is Music Production Suite 2 after they've had a year to add new features/new plugins instead. And the WORST POSSIBLE DEAL would be to buy O8N2 for $199 now. So no, iZotope, it's still a laughable offer... I'll wait for MPS2.

The only ones laughing are the pirates, who get MPS today for free.

iZotope should treat their customers better. The $299 for MBP2 to MPS1 would have been fine if the bundle added some brand new plugins or audio capabilities, but it adds practically nothing...
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Kode
KVRist
 
33 posts since 26 Jun, 2009

Postby Kode; Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:33 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

I received a new coupon that say: dont upgrade to Ozone 8 and Neutron 2 now and save money, stay with MBP2, maybe in the future we rethink proper upgrades for all of our users, Thanks.

Great coupon, the cost is 0$. Thanks Izotope.
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plexuss
KVRian
 
1294 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Postby plexuss; Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:40 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

Kode wrote:I received a new coupon that say: dont upgrade to Ozone 8 and Neutron 2 now and save money, stay with MBP2, maybe in the future we rethink proper upgrades for all of our users, Thanks.

Great coupon, the cost is 0$. Thanks Izotope.


I also have MPB2 Advanced. So for $200 (give or take with discounts) I can get O8N2 - same problem as mentioned... why would I bother? Like the rest of you I think it's prudent to wait for MPS2 and do the upgrade to that if the price is reasonable. If iZotope were my primary tool-set I could see upgrading now, but for me my MPB2 products compliment my expansive tool-set and so I have little incentive to upgrade now.
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audiosabre
KVRian
 
1037 posts since 24 Jul, 2008, from England

Postby audiosabre; Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:25 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

So with this deal, explicitly for MPB2 owners, we're forced to downgrade because why? As mentioned above this will affect our future upgrades. Slimy and greasy :roll:

You can do better than this, iZotope. Still waiting for $149 MPS upgrade. Whether I acquire through a desperate sale, or a closing down sale, will be up to you at this point :scared:

Just being honest, nothing personal.
Pretty Boy Johnny
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JunSev
KVRist
 
63 posts since 13 Sep, 2017

Postby JunSev; Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:41 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

In my opinion they should improve the prices and provide with better solutions from the beginning, the competence is too high and there are a lot of good alternatives out there.

if they where with a better introductory price I'm for sure they would get more sales, more loyal costumers for the better development of products and stability in its own. now they did something, but even that isn't enough now.
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jasco
KVRist
 
178 posts since 25 Aug, 2002, from Leeds

Postby jasco; Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:36 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

The Neutron 2 upgrade should be like $29.
Kode
KVRist
 
33 posts since 26 Jun, 2009

Postby Kode; Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 am Re: Ozone 8 & Neutron 2 announced for October 2017

I dont understand why there is not a Music Production Suite with the introductory price at 199$ that reflect this move from Izotope for users with MPB2. where the problem is?.

Upgrade to something inferior is a NO-NO, deal with 2 instalations, two serials, two problems.
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