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Burillo
KVRAF
 
2788 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:25 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

tasty tatsyn wrote:sorry there's a difference between a null test and nullifying a test...

what's "nullifying a test"?

tasty tatsyn wrote:even if it's just a loudness difference (wich i believe it isn't) i'm ok with it... i prefer listening to music in dopamine.

you can believe what you want. the fact is, your own findings indicate that music in Dopamine sounds the same as it does in WMP, even if you choose to ignore facts in favor of your presupposition.
From Russia with love
tasty tatsyn
KVRist
 
202 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Postby tasty tatsyn; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

Burillo wrote:you probably misunderstood me when i said "null test on the video". what i meant is, rip out the audio track of the video where you think you "hear the difference", and check if the difference is actually there. like, do a null test, like you did before.



sorry, that actually makes sense ;) and takes off the "weird sample recording" made out of the equation i guess
tasty tatsyn
KVRist
 
202 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Postby tasty tatsyn; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:31 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

later, maybe tonight.....
tasty tatsyn
KVRist
 
202 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Postby tasty tatsyn; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:33 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

chk071 wrote:What i hear from the video (briefly listened to it, on low volume, and with desktop speakers...), Dopamine seems to have a bit more brilliance, meaning the top end seems a bit boosted. Maybe it actually has some DSP going on under the hood. Who knows. You should ask the developer, to be totally sure.

Maybe also a samplerate thing.


i can asure you that (at least on my system) with good quality listening headphones the difference is obvious.
not so much with mixing (as flat as possible) heaphones
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stardustmedia
KVRAF
 
1570 posts since 12 Dec, 2012, from Switzerland

Postby stardustmedia; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:49 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

I guess your computer already has 64GB RAM and a 32bit OS, otherwise stop reading here, because the next hints won't help at all. It is utterly important, that the OS cannot address more than 4GB RAM, so that your music will be played from the other 60GB, where no system thingies or other applications are saved.

To put your player into the HIMEM, enter this in your config.sys:
Code: Select all
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\MYSUPERPLAYER\VLC.EXE
DOS=HIGH,UMB


Ok... then...

Those differences occur only with HDDs running at 5400rpm. Or SSDs that are too small in memory size.

HDD with 7200rpm deliver a slight better sound, only with VLC though, other players don't benefit from faster drive speeds.

No need to go for 10000rpm discs. Though, at first glance, they seem to sound warmer, but actually, if you listen very carefully, they introduce a slightly overdithered sound.

So ultimately, you need SSD with at least 1TB space. Less memory space reduces the bandwidth for the player. Also very important: The disc must still have at least 37.59% free space, but not more than 77.68%, only then the players will get close to the sound of the DAW.

Finally you just need to buy exactly 1.24 meters of those ESOTERIC power cables:
Image

Those cables will make your computer built-in speakers sound like a Barefoot system. Really!!

If you still have issues: Just listen back the audio file from your DAW.
:lol:
Image stardustmedia - high end analog music services - murat
chk071
KVRAF
 
13547 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:51 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

tasty tatsyn wrote:i can asure you that (at least on my system) with good quality listening headphones the difference is obvious.
not so much with mixing (as flat as possible) heaphones

Especially on mixing headphones, the difference should be obvious. After all, that's what they made for, to easily be able to determine if there is a problem in specific frequency regions, opposed to often more "muddy" hi-fi 'phones.
It's not "news" anymore, it's "infotainment".
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Burillo
KVRAF
 
2788 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:59 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

stardustmedia wrote:I guess your computer already has 64GB RAM and a 32bit OS, otherwise stop reading here, because the next hints won't help at all. It is utterly important, that the OS cannot address more than 4GB RAM, so that your music will be played from the other 60GB, where no system thingies or other applications are saved.

To put your player into the HIMEM, enter this in your config.sys:
Code: Select all
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\MYSUPERPLAYER\VLC.EXE
DOS=HIGH,UMB

you forgot to mention that you have to also disable PAE, otherwise Windows will put stuff into that "unaddressable" 60GB of memory.
From Russia with love
Kr3eM
KVRist
 
242 posts since 1 Sep, 2007

Postby Kr3eM; Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:17 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

User avatar
stardustmedia
KVRAF
 
1570 posts since 12 Dec, 2012, from Switzerland

Postby stardustmedia; Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:35 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

Burillo wrote:
stardustmedia wrote:I guess your computer already has 64GB RAM and a 32bit OS, otherwise stop reading here, because the next hints won't help at all. It is utterly important, that the OS cannot address more than 4GB RAM, so that your music will be played from the other 60GB, where no system thingies or other applications are saved.

To put your player into the HIMEM, enter this in your config.sys:
Code: Select all
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\MYSUPERPLAYER\VLC.EXE
DOS=HIGH,UMB

you forgot to mention that you have to also disable PAE, otherwise Windows will put stuff into that "unaddressable" 60GB of memory.


Absolutely, I forgot that. Since I have now a Mac, I don't have to bother about that anymore. The original Apple RAM makes iTunes sound anyway much better than anything else. Much warmer, more brilliance, more depth, more space, more punch, more playmates, but only if I listen with Dre's headphones.
Image stardustmedia - high end analog music services - murat
tasty tatsyn
KVRist
 
202 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Postby tasty tatsyn; Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:26 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

Dopamine and WMP alligned and volume matched

all channels at -1.9 volume and 2 limiters one in group channel and another on master at -1.5 gain

at the end i turn on PRO-L to give a 30DB boost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNX3ukjXRPs

...
Roman Empire
KVRian
 
796 posts since 31 Mar, 2002, from Spain

Postby Roman Empire; Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:10 pm Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

Been following this thread to see where it all ends up. I´m not sure if you already clarified having done the following - I only see that you´ve done the cancellation experiment with internal routing:

Have you tried recording something you consider sounding wrong with a standard media player as output with using internal routing, and then also recorded it the same way but using your prefered player instead?
If you did, do you still hear the difference?
If so, it´d be interesting to hear the clips and some guidance to which differences that there are.
If there´s no difference to hear, try doing the same with a cable from your soundcards out to its in. That may color the sound a bit, but should still give you a proof of concept.
Best Regards

Roman Empire
tasty tatsyn
KVRist
 
202 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Postby tasty tatsyn; Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:01 pm Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

Roman Empire wrote:Been following this thread to see where it all ends up. I´m not sure if you already clarified having done the following - I only see that you´ve done the cancellation experiment with internal routing:

Have you tried recording something you consider sounding wrong with a standard media player as output with using internal routing, and then also recorded it the same way but using your prefered player instead?
If you did, do you still hear the difference?
If so, it´d be interesting to hear the clips and some guidance to which differences that there are.
If there´s no difference to hear, try doing the same with a cable from your soundcards out to its in. That may color the sound a bit, but should still give you a proof of concept.


thx mate, nice tip ;)... found a cable lost around here, connected line out to line in and here is the result:
both clips recorded at 70 % volume because it was clipping bad; and again -1.9 on all channels pre's, 2 limiters with -1.5 gain
did a 40DB boost on master out before limiter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4uYVSEUirQ
User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
 
2788 posts since 15 Nov, 2006, from Hell

Postby Burillo; Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:13 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

i've repeated this many times, and i will say it again - ditch the videos, post the original comparison files, so that we can run tests of our own and make sure you didn't miss anything obvious.

also, why boost after nulling? if it nulls down to -80dB or lower, it's inaudible for all practical intents and purposes, so boosting it to hear "difference" will not give you any useful information.
From Russia with love
Roman Empire
KVRian
 
796 posts since 31 Mar, 2002, from Spain

Postby Roman Empire; Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:16 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

Ok, and you do indeed hear differences here? If so, what are they exactly? I saw something in the beginning about it, but maybe you could point out specific points in time where things sound different and tell us exactly what it is to you that´s different.. compression, frequencies and so on.. "at 2.24, the music sounds awful on player x. Distorted and with a very disturbing ringing at around 3000 hz. Same playing on player y at 3.32, where everything is clear and how it should be." - ish.
Best Regards

Roman Empire
tasty tatsyn
KVRist
 
202 posts since 19 Jun, 2016

Postby tasty tatsyn; Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:09 am Re: music player that doesn't f**k UP.... music....!

seriously i'm done....

https://imgur.com/a/8wXLd

filling up my limited hard drive space and working fine pc full of evaluation copy of "shady" stuff so you nullyfy everything and the same exact tests on someone else videos are just fine and absolutly correct... ;)

if anyone has read this can or watched my 2nd comparison video can take take their own conclusions... (even if not exactly like platyed live)

or download Dopamine and hear it... without the coding, decoding and aliasing of a recording of a recording of a recording of the same file going trough a windows mixer to a sub mixer of a free evaluation copy of program X
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