KVR Audio

aumordia · Post by **aumordia** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:38 pm

I looked at the source code and I don't see what all the hub-bub is about. It's only about 4k SLOC, and no its not a monument of elegance, but its perfectly serviceable, and if it was refactored for maximal grace and majesty that would probably only shave 1k SLOC off, tops.

Anyway, what's the tl;dr on what changes people want to see made to this thing? I can't promise anything since I have a job, wife, kids, friends, a life, etc, but I'll at least take a look.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:31 pm

aumordia wrote:I looked at the source code and I don't see what all the hub-bub is about. It's only about 4k SLOC, and no its not a monument of elegance, but its perfectly serviceable, and if it was refactored for maximal grace and majesty that would probably only shave 1k SLOC off, tops.

Anyway, what's the tl;dr on what changes people want to see made to this thing? I can't promise anything since I have a job, wife, kids, friends, a life, etc, but I'll at least take a look.

A better way to handle presets (with a built-in browser), and a better way to handle skins too (the current way that George came up with was kind of a hacker solution for both of these). Regarding skins, a way to point to external resources, as fort example is done by U-He synths, would be welcome.

Oh, and a convenient port to Mac OS that would include AU, would be welcome.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:40 pm

You might see what the hub-bub is about when you realize they're asking for enhancements to JUCE to enable skinning and other GUI features.

In other words as rough as the DSP code may be, it doesn't even enter into the equation of maintainability for these features. Note however how users "claim" that: "the sound was better in version ..."

What exactly changed between these versions? The filter can't sound better or worse because it was identical, right?

Tiny changes in the DSP source could have major effects on the result due to the large number of inline "magic number" variables.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:19 pm

aumordia wrote:I looked at the source code and I don't see what all the hub-bub is about. It's only about 4k SLOC, and no its not a monument of elegance, but its perfectly serviceable, and if it was refactored for maximal grace and majesty that would probably only shave 1k SLOC off, tops.

Anyway, what's the tl;dr on what changes people want to see made to this thing? I can't promise anything since I have a job, wife, kids, friends, a life, etc, but I'll at least take a look.

The last of the original builds included a few parameters that haven't been exposed on the GUI if I remember correctly (I believe there was an invert envelope option), would be nice to get a build/GUI that included them too. Would be nice if the knobs were fully skinnable, or at least better looking. I believe in the current state, only the background is skinnable. A 'half" option for keytracking would be nice too.

But a version with an internal preset browser would be the biggest improvement IMO.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:38 am

I still don't understand why preset browsers are even included inside plugins.
Why isn't the preset browser in your DAW enough for you ?

Asking for it, instead of asking for improvements to the audio side of the plugin is IMHO a waste of the developers precious time.

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:42 am

Mutant wrote:I still don't understand why preset browsers are even included inside plugins.
Why isn't the preset browser in your DAW enough for you ?

Asking for it, instead of asking for improvements to the audio side of the plugin is IMHO a waste of the developers precious time.

^^^^^this

just look at the BS PolyGAS is dealing with its onboard Bank/patch system

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:41 am

layzer wrote:
Mutant wrote:I still don't understand why preset browsers are even included inside plugins.
Why isn't the preset browser in your DAW enough for you ?

Asking for it, instead of asking for improvements to the audio side of the plugin is IMHO a waste of the developers precious time.
^^^^^this

just look at the BS PolyGAS is dealing with its onboard Bank/patch system

^^^^^NOT^^^^^

Sound is great as it is. Please don't mess with it UNLESS you are certain you can do better (does it really need to be better?). "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". Sound is probably the single item nobody is questioning in OB-Xd

Preset Browser. Does it really need to be explained? You want to use the synth in another DAW, or in another platform, or simply send the sounds you programmed to other people. How do you make it? And how do you interchange sounds between VST2, VST3 and AU? If it wasn't important, I'm sure VST programmers would not waste so much time creating their own preset browsers and patch management routines. The same applies to GUI.

In the end it's about "management". If it's to mess with the audio, for me is "thanks, but no thanks".

Spitfire31 · Post by **Spitfire31** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:59 am

fmr wrote:

^^^^^NOT^^^^^

Sound is great as it is. Please don't mess with it UNLESS you are certain you can do better (does it really need to be better?). "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". Sound is probably the single item nobody is questioning in OB-Xd

Preset Browser. Does it really need to be explained? You want to use the synth in another DAW, or in another platform, or simply send the sounds you programmed to other people. How do you make it? And how do you interchange sounds between VST2, VST3 and AU? If it wasn't important, I'm sure VST programmers would not waste so much time creating their own preset browsers and patch management routines. The same applies to GUI.

In the end it's about "management". If it's to mess with the audio, for me is "thanks, but no thanks".[/quote]
This!

/Joachim

Kumi_27 · Post by **Kumi_27** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:02 pm

You know, if someone will pick the code and release new version with new preset manager, it doesn't mean Your older "great as it is" version will stop working...

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Spitfire31 wrote:
fmr wrote: ^^^^^NOT^^^^^

Sound is great as it is. Please don't mess with it UNLESS you are certain you can do better (does it really need to be better?). "If it ain't broken, don't fix it". Sound is probably the single item nobody is questioning in OB-Xd

Preset Browser. Does it really need to be explained? You want to use the synth in another DAW, or in another platform, or simply send the sounds you programmed to other people. How do you make it? And how do you interchange sounds between VST2, VST3 and AU? If it wasn't important, I'm sure VST programmers would not waste so much time creating their own preset browsers and patch management routines. The same applies to GUI.

In the end it's about "management". If it's to mess with the audio, for me is "thanks, but no thanks".
This!

/Joachim

aumordia · Post by **aumordia** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:39 pm

Acidose I don’t know why you’re so prickly but so far the consensus seems to be that they’d like a preset browser and lol that does not require changing JUCE come on man.

Anyway, so right now you can right click on the UI to load a bank, but in order to load a patch from within that bank, you have to use your DAW’s native facilities. It seems to me it wouldn’t be too hard to replace this obscure right click with a little button you click to select a bank from a menu (like what happens now with the right click), and then there could be another little button that you click to access the presets from within that bank — would that get the job done?

mcbpete · Post by **mcbpete** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:43 pm

Be careful, the source is cursed. Maybe seek a witch doctor before bugfixing/tweaking it.

.jon · Post by **.jon** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:58 pm

I don't really care for internal preset browsers (or presets), skin you choose once and forget about, but I'd love to see OBxd remember the MIDI assignments. Not sure how difficult it would be to implement some sort of "write-to-.ini", but imo this would increase usability a lot. Load it up, and the controls respond to the same CCs you taught it once. As it is, I don't really use OBxd even though it sounds fantastic.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:59 am

aumordia wrote:Acidose I don’t know why you’re so prickly but so far the consensus seems to be that they’d like a preset browser and lol that does not require changing JUCE come on man.

What do you mean? The whole GUI is based on JUCE and so any implementation will be limited to the features it provides. So in other words the author of such features will need to be intimately familiar with JUCE and if any changes are needed there are major compatibility hurdles (AKA, it isn't really sane to change the 3rd party library's functionality.)

That means someone offering to work on the project basically needs JUCE experience or will need to get up to speed on various features of the engine and implement what are essentially extensions to enable skinning and implement widgets that the engine does not provide.

In my case for example, I have never used JUCE and have approximately zero familiarity with it. Therefore it would be impossible for me to understand the complexity of a project to implement skinning features using the JUCE engine.

It is similarly impossible for any other 3rd party lacking that knowledge to estimate the complexity "all the hub-bub", which is what I was talking about.

braj · Post by **braj** » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:06 am

https://www.juce.com/tutorials

Obxd synthesizer