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Googly Smythe
KVRAF
 
1886 posts since 11 May, 2011, from The 51st state

Postby Googly Smythe; Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:36 am Re: waves api2500, is there a way to turn it off with automation?

ramseysounds wrote:
Googly Smythe wrote:Can anyone else actually hear this noise in their projects?
I regularly use 3 or 4 on groups (in Cubase, and with analog turned on) and, obviously with no input, the channel meters read -~ ie silence. Ergo, no noise. Even when I put an instance of REDD in front, with the drive turned up.
Just sayin'.
And, er, asking.

Yes, I can hear it.
It seems to be a standard Waves thing.
When you turn the analogue button on (or add 50/60 Hz on the CLA-2A for example) all that happens is it adds 'hiss' or 'noise'. The meters always hover above inf, never clear themselves. Turn analogue off and the meter goes clear. On Cubase by the way.


I understand the analog thing with the CLA stuff (which I always have turned off). But when using the analog feature with the CLA stuff you get a lot of meter movement. When I use the analog dial on any of the REDD series, I get a lot of meter movement. Therefore, noise is present, as expected.
But, when I turn on the analog switch on the API2500, there is no meter movement at all. None. Therefore, no noise. And I whacked the output faders to max. The goes for the eqs in the API collection. :shrug:
Maybe I have a brand new one, in pristine condition. :)

(Please note: I ain't denying what's been said here, just saying I ain't having that issue.) :tu:
lunarchris1
KVRist
 
63 posts since 1 Jul, 2012, from USA - IL

Postby lunarchris1; Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:06 am Re: waves api2500, is there a way to turn it off with automation?

OP, are you using any other plugins that introduce noise earlier in your chain? I've ran into that issue with Waves tape emus or various Slate stuff in the past. It's usually not audibly noticeable until you're getting your level up at the end of the mix, but you may need to gate in other places to remove the noise during quiet section.
Chris H.
simon.a.billington
KVRian
 
1136 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Postby simon.a.billington; Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:28 pm Re: waves api2500, is there a way to turn it off with automation?

lunarchris1 wrote:I don't know, I've heard folks talk about the brickwall limiter like it's a well known 'secret'. No matter how high you boost the output (the Manual output, obviously) with Analog on, it won't clip your meter. Try it out! :phones:


I just tried it out and it does clip. Many people forget to turn the Auto Makeup feature off.

Incidentally, I just ran it through a spectrogram and the Analog switch doesn't just add noise and hum, it actually adds the harmonic distortion that the API is known for. So turning off the Analog turns off the harmonic modelling as well.

That's kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Granted there are instances where you can haver too much of a good thing and too much noise build up, so you deftly have to make tough decisions there. However, I, like Greg Wells and a few other world class pros... and clearly Waves, believe that the noise is what gives it that x-factor to make it sound more analogue. It's very much a personal thing though.

I rarely run into issues where noise is a problem, but that could be due to a number of factors from the kind of source material I'm working with, to how I'm mixing and applying these effects.

I just encourage everybody to try the Analog, leave it on, use mixed and varied processors so the noise builds up less quickly. Perhaps turn it off for parallel processing and secondary track where having nice fat sounds is actually disadvantageous. Then you can always use a noise gate if it gets a bit too much. That's what Greg Wells does, thats actually the job they were designed for all those many years ago.
simon.a.billington
KVRian
 
1136 posts since 12 Nov, 2014

Postby simon.a.billington; Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:35 pm Re: waves api2500, is there a way to turn it off with automation?

Googly Smythe wrote:
I understand the analog thing with the CLA stuff (which I always have turned off). But when using the analog feature with the CLA stuff you get a lot of meter movement. When I use the analog dial on any of the REDD series, I get a lot of meter movement. Therefore, noise is present, as expected.
But, when I turn on the analog switch on the API2500, there is no meter movement at all. None. Therefore, no noise. And I whacked the output faders to max. The goes for the eqs in the API collection. :shrug:
Maybe I have a brand new one, in pristine condition. :)

(Please note: I ain't denying what's been said here, just saying I ain't having that issue.) :tu:


With the CLA, REDD and older processors, the noise was a bigger problem. We just weren't there yet technologically speaking. Which is fair, this was way back in the 50s & 60s. As time went by the tech got better, tolerances got smaller, and the noise footprint got much lower.

The API 2500 is a modern compressor by comparison. It was created around 2000 or so, this means that it has ultra low noise levels, but they are still there. Generally below 100dB, but this is quite common with modern tech. You'll notice much of today's devices puts the noise spec down below 100dB as well.

You can actually run it through a spectrogram and see for yourself. Just make sure you are viewing levels below -100dBFS.
lunarchris1
KVRist
 
63 posts since 1 Jul, 2012, from USA - IL

Postby lunarchris1; Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:48 pm Re: waves api2500, is there a way to turn it off with automation?

simon.a.billington wrote:I just tried it out and it does clip. Many people forget to turn the Auto Makeup feature off.


Not sure what to tell you. When I mix sometimes I like to use it as the last plugin on master fader in PT11 to bring the volume up. I've been able to slice off 2-3db of gain (pushing peaks past 0db with it's output) and the meter never turns red when I have Analog on. Mind you, this is no True Peak limiter with intersample protection or anything like that, but despite that I've done mixes for folks and used this to bring the volume up to give them an idea of what their mix will sound like at their optimal volume. I've used it for mastering on some of my friends' songs, followed by a limiter with OS and IS protection, but I've never seen the API clip a meter. Maybe you pushed it further than I would for science? Not sure. But I've taken this OT far enough on this point. I would just suggest folks check that functionality out in case it does anything for them. And I totally agree with you on adding some of that noise for vibe. I use a lot of the waves and slate plugs with the noise engaged, and haven't gotten any complaints yet!
Chris H.
PsychatoR
KVRist
 
148 posts since 25 Apr, 2011

Postby PsychatoR; Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:51 pm Re: waves api2500, is there a way to turn it off with automation?

tx guys. i think ill automate volume off. how i didnt think that before haha lol
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